Woollen ropes, British pork campaign and beef market outlook

Charlotte: 00:00:00

I think we've both got a busy weekend coming, haven't we? I'm off at a Hendoo. You're off on holiday.

Martin: 00:00:04

That's it. Off to the skies, treating the good lady with a cheese sandwich as we take to the heavens. So, yeah, all good.

And I'm not going on my crutches, they are being left behind.

I have had physio today, but it has been a case of you rubbing it in my face last week with your run round Westburg Arboretum and Hannah doing her 31 miles in 31 days throughout last month. My daughter, my four year old daughter is rubbing it in. She has been awarded a certificate to say that she is the athlete of the week and amazing.

She got awarded it for excellent jumping skills. So you both are running. That's something I can't do and at the minute I can't jump. So my four year old daughter is putting me to shame.

Charlotte: 00:00:56

The athlete of the house.

Martin: 00:01:12

Hi, I'm producer Martin in for Hannah Clarke again.

Charlotte: 00:01:15

I'm Charlotte Forkes-Rees and welcome to The AG Show.

Martin: 00:01:19

Coming up in this episode, you, you asked, we listened. So we are talking wool, specifically ropes.

Charlotte: 00:01:26

And fabrics and one farmer's quest to ensure transparency, traceability and sustainability of her products sourced and made right here in the uk.

Kate: 00:01:36

You know, there's no point doing circular economy if you've got a massive carbon footprint. Achieving the product if you're not sustainable or not efficient and overuse planetary resources. That circle's broken.

Martin: 00:01:49

There's even more championing of British farming as we look at the latest pork marketing campaign.

Nic: 00:01:56

So if you like Ant and Dec, you'll be able to see it on Limitless, Win and also Britain's Got Talent because they're back on TV all the time. You might like a bit of Midsummer Murders or Hollyoaks. So it's across a range of different channels.

Charlotte: 00:02:09

Plus we'll bring you the details of the beef market outlook.

Martin: 00:02:14

A reminder, new episodes of the Ag show drop every Wednesday at midday. Available wherever you get your podcast with.

Charlotte: 00:02:22

Audio and video versions for every show. Just subscribe to make sure you don't.

Martin: 00:02:27

Miss an episode and get in touch. We love to hear from you. Remember, we're talking about Walt because somebody got in touch. So comment on any of our social posts or email axhohdb.org.

Charlotte: 00:02:44

We'Re going to talk about British wool because a little while ago Hannah and I were talking about the latest prices.

Martin: 00:02:51

That's right. And off the back of that innocent sounding chat, we actually had a request from Susie, a fan of this podcast, to talk some more about wool.

Well, we've only gone and got the first ever female farmer to sit on the board of British Wool to join us. So a round of applause, I think, for the Ag show here. Kate Drury, a big welco to the Ag show to you.

Kate: 00:03:14

Thank you.

Martin: 00:03:15

Before we go anywhere, I think probably the best thing is to get a bit about you, get your background and, you know, just how you become this great big ambassador for wool.

Kate: 00:03:24

So I am a fourth generation farmer, my family farm in the Welland Valley in Northamptonshire. I've always been part of agriculture and worked in other industries as well, in policy, business development.

And so when I was studying my masters, I was asked if you could make rope out of wool. And I had absolutely no idea.

But when I realized how you made it and there was no commercial manufacture of wool rope, it was being done on rope walks or hand cranked, I thought that potentially a whole new market for wool. So I was offered a PhD in the subject, but also I set up the company to see what we could do with it, but also for it to be UK wool.

Martin: 00:04:06

We'll talk a bit more about your company, sustainable Rope, a little bit later on. But just in terms of the popularity of wool, is it that popular? Is it overlooked, underutilized at the moment, do you feel?

Kate: 00:04:19

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we have kind of two problems and they were the kind of the two problems I started my research on.

One as a farmer, I didn't feel I got a fair return for my wool. I get a wool check just like my neighbors. But the other thing is that we have a real problem with microplastic pollution.

We've seen research demonstrate that it's been linked to dementia, it's in breast milk. So we're passing it onto the next generation. It's ubiquitous and it's in us.

And so to reduce that threat and that pollution, we have to turn to natural fibers. So the future is actually very exciting for, for all the fibers that we manufacture in the uk, you know, both wool and flax and hemp.

Charlotte: 00:05:03

So if we're thinking that the, the future could really be going down these routes and obviously how sustainable that can be currently, sort of how big is the supply chain and actually how big would that potentially become in the future if we were going to move more down this route, do you think my.

Kate: 00:05:15

Company is to really make wool rope at scale?

So the last two or three years been working with industry because you have to demonstrate assurance and insurance for them to transition to a Natural fibre. It would be great if they just did it, but they don't and they have to de risk transition.

But also is that we've got loads of legislation coming down the track.

You know, in Europe alone, they've got green deal, circuit economy, we've got the esdr, which is the Eco Design for Sustainable Products Regulation, we've got. We've got digital product passports. To create a sustainable market, you have to have transparency. And they're really pushing for this.

It'll be where brands nominate to do a lot more about circular economy and sustainability. And then the legislation will come which will force them, because we know pollution from synthetic materials is well out of control.

Charlotte: 00:06:06

And I think, you know, obviously sustainability is a big part within that. But are there other benefits for using wool within ropes?

Kate: 00:06:13

Yeah, I mean, wool is biodegradable. It's really benign in our environment.

And so what we challenge is the deployment of how long you can use it for, because obviously it's not as strong, nowhere near as strong as plastic. But the industries that I work with, the seaweed industry and land restoration, they only need that rope to work for a certain period of time.

And actually in some of the research we're doing with the seaweed industry, we actually want that to degrade and disappear. So we're looking at time windows of deployment.

But also so because it breaks down to nitrogen and just goes back to carbons, if it disappears in the sea, if it goes back into the soil, it's not just a non pollutant, but it's a benefit.

Charlotte: 00:06:55

I would never have thought as wool for being rope. I think of wool as in a nice jumper, so knitting and that type of thing. And we do see that sometimes.

You know, there was a little bit of a trend going around and I saw a lot of it on social media with certain celebrities that were getting really into knitting. Do we see some of that coming through in some trends or demand that comes through for these products?

Kate: 00:07:18

Yeah, absolutely. So I sell to quite a few designers. There's a chair designer I was talking to this morning.

The RHS are going to have wool ropes, a barrier rope around them in one of their gardens, RHS Malvern.

So the design world really have adopted it faster than any others, really, because I manufacture rope, fabric and braid, so then they can, between the different ranges, they can deploy all three materials. One research we just started last week, which I'm really excited about, is with the Game and Wildlife Conservatory Trust at Allerton.

So we're using wool rope as binders in hedge laying. Because the binders are hard to, are getting harder to source and actually they're more expensive than my rope.

So therefore we're putting it in hedges and by the time that the wool is no longer needed to be structurally strong, the hedges have already established and then that wool sits in that hedge completely benign. And I sell wool for bird nesting.

And so actually I can imagine when these ropes start degrading in the hedge, they will actually also be bedding for nests.

Martin: 00:08:23

What is the lifespan then for your ropes? I mean, I guess it's different for what particular use they've been made for.

Kate: 00:08:29

I have been going about three, three and a half years. So I've got rope on the farm and in the garden that has been there and is still there, still there, intact.

It's not under strain, it's not got a working load on it, but it's used structurally. And then with the seaweed industry, it's a one one season deployment.

But the exciting thing about that is that when they bring the ropes in, instead of having a lot of expense of harvesting the ropes off the seaweed off the rope and then washing it and trying to get all that vegetation out to store it for the winter, the companies that I work with, they turn their seaweed, their end of season plant into fertiliser. So the wool rope goes with the seaweed into the tanks and so they have no harvesting costs whatsoever or cleaning or storing.

They just gather and it's an annual requirement for wool.

Charlotte: 00:09:21

So are you doing all the manufacturing in the uk? Like is it all sort of UK based product that's coming through?

Kate: 00:09:29

Yeah. So we're really lucky here in West Yorkshire we can do the whole supply chain.

There's really two main scouring plants when you wash the wool and we're really lucky, we've got one one side of me in Bradford and one the other side in Dewsbury. So say the Swaildale, which are the sheep that kind of graze around this area, the wool doesn't even leave the county.

So it's washed, co combed, spun into yarn and we manufacture the rope on the farm and then the braid and the fabric are made locally, so some of the wool doesn't even leave the county or some of the products. But they definitely, we have no offshoring or insuring of any product whatsoever because it is 100% wool.

Martin: 00:10:11

Does that push up cost at all?

Kate: 00:10:13

Well, we're manufacturing rope at a price point that industry can adopt. But when I first started out on this, and you've got to Bear in mind, I knew nothing about, about the wool once it left the farm.

I knew nothing about yarn manufacture or rope or seaweed farming. So I was offered for people to help me to source my wool and help me get it into Turkey to spun into yarn and then back into West Yorkshire.

You know, there's no point doing circular economy if you've got a massive carbon footprint achieving the product. The whole thing about the circle is that if you're not sustainable or not efficient and overuse planetary resources, that circle's broken.

Charlotte: 00:10:54

I think probably part of the appeal of being able to have woolen rope is that actually it is quite an environmentally friendly product.

So if you are then going to be adding in those transport costs, actually that is then kind of negating some of that benefit that it would be providing.

Kate: 00:11:08

I find that my locality walls, like the Welsh Mountain, I sell far more of that because people are genuinely wanting transparency and traceability, but they want to support something they know and that's why everything is uk UK wall and UK manuf.

We have to invest back, you know, as a farmer farming in the uk, we have some of the best animal welfare in the world and we are highly, highly regulated and that's right and that's how it should be. But you can't then turn around and import something cheaper, which we see in our food policy and in our fiber policy with public procurement.

So for me and my customers, they're genuinely about investing back, investing back in those people that are doing it properly.

Charlotte: 00:11:56

I think it's quite an interesting point you're saying about the Welsh and having potentially that as that name that people are going, oh yeah, no, I know that that's going to be supporting local farmers. We see some of that coming through with.

In my day to day job as a retail and consumer insight analyst, there is that appeal, there is that want for supporting our British farmers with the products that you make. Do you find that there are certain products that if it does say it's Welsh or it's a certain region within there, it's more interest to people.

Kate: 00:12:23

Yeah, absolutely.

So when it kind of started, I mean we sort of say UK with now, it's now really British Isles because I work a lot over in Northern Ireland and they have, they're more and more, they have an all island approach. So the wool is from the Republic as well, from the north. So we now have an Irish range.

Because when you sort of start out and you think of your market, you do tend to think quite like locally based, but America and you Know, out into the Far east, they want to put a name to somewhere or like tourists that come into Northern Ireland. So I definitely think that the consumers actually care and they want a choice.

And we quite often see it in food policy debate where people go, well the consumer won't pay or the consumer, you know, I don't want eight rows of crisps in my supermarket. Nobody asked me if I wanted them. And so we do. There is a kind of ping pong of misinformation. So I thought well I'll just test the market.

I'm just going to do it like this and find out if there is a market for it. Because where do you start marketing rope when nobody knows it's a thing? It's quite hard.

But yeah, no, I think that locality and that transparency of consumers is as much as a product in itself.

Charlotte: 00:13:35

And do you have a top locality?

Kate: 00:13:37

Do I have a top local? No, I have now we brand it as members of our flock and we now have eight. And so yeah, I try and champion them all.

I do find some localities definitely have a stronger community behind them. I won't say who. I think probably got a weak one, but the Welsh mountain definitely has a strong community behind it.

Martin: 00:13:58

Kate, this is absolutely fascinating stuff. We've got still got more questions that we, we want to ask you but for now we're just gonna pause the conversation. Are you listening to the ACT show?

I'm Martin Winch, AKA producer Martin, here with Charlotte Faulks Reese and it is time for the news and Charlotte are gonna kick off again with something about.

Nic: 00:16:19

This story's got a bit of a.

Martin: 00:16:20

Royal touch to it, hasn't it?

Charlotte: 00:16:22

Yeah, it does. But if dear listener, you cast your mind back to an episode that we released back in December, you might remember the charity we featured.

We are Farming Minds.

So that's the Herefordshire based charity which provides fully funded counseling, a 247 support line, training, social events, advice and broader support to raise awareness of the importance of mental specifically for farmers.

Now the Herefordshire sheep farmer behind this charity Sam stables has trekked 142 miles, which is crazy, from Rossommoy all the way to London raising money for farmers mental health support.

And we heard that he received a boost on his walk when he out of nowhere had a notification that the Prince of Wales popped up with a five thousand pound donation. Now Prince William, who is actually a patron of Sam's charity sent him a message saying keep going, you're doing an amazing job.

Which I think would take me by surprise. If I was suddenly gonna get that on Instagram. So yeah, I'd be over the moon with that.

The prince met with Sam in January to really help with shining that light on mental health support in farming. And that is exactly what we are farming minds does so brilliantly.

It's that free counseling, the 247 support line, your training, your social events and sure that there is that proper practical help for rural communities in place. So really fantastic to see such a big backing for the charity, which is doing incredibly important work.

Producer Martin, you found anything interesting going on in the news?

Martin: 00:18:07

Well, I've raided the AHDB cupboard again. Our annual agricultural market outlook.

As I mentioned last week, it offers a snapshot of market conditions and prospects across sectors and key input markets. We've already heard from dairy a fortnight ago, the pork sector last week. This time it's beef with Becky Smith.

Becky: 00:18:28

s. Let's take a look at HDB's: 2026

In: 2025

This year, UK beef production is forecast to fall by around 1% with a restricted pipeline of cattle. Tighter numbers are expected to keep prices supported throughout the period. In retail, everyday cuts are doing the heavy lifting.

Mince remains a family favourite, versatile and affordable for dishes such as spaghetti Bolognese and cottage pie steaks.

o these dine in Solutions. In: 2026

We may see more product imported from Poland, Australia and New Zealand. Exports are also expected to dip a little as UK production limits availability.

viour. High beef inflation in: 2025

Any further price increases could lead to.

Martin: 00:19:36

Further volume declines and you can see that highlights reel on our social media along with the other ones. So do check out all our social channels and go to the website as well where we've got all the details in full.

That's ahdb.org if you've been scrolling on.

Charlotte: 00:19:55

Social media or been sat watching the ads in between your favourite shows on telly, you might have spotted an advert promoting British pork.

And that's because every February there is a push from hdb, which since last year has gone with a tagline, this is British pork, but not as you know it.

So I'm very excited that today I am joined by Nick Dodd and I'm hoping, Nick, you're going to be able to give us a little bit of insight into what we're doing, what we're aiming for with this campaign.

But I think a really good point to start off with is when we're thinking about marketing for pork, you know, what are the main goals that we really have in mind and how does that really impact our sector?

Nic: 00:20:36

So people often just shop on autopilot, so they put the same things in their baskets week in, week out. Tends to be chicken. And we just want to sort of make people reappraise and make sure the pork is front of mind instead.

So our key objective is to be able to inspire people with easy pork dishes that they can easily feed their family with, but also by giving them some of the key messages of why they should choose pork. So the fact that it's great value for money, we know that that's a really important thing for most people, although it's healthy.

And then you've got a package of great other benefits. Easy take, tasty, convenient.

So it's just trying to make sure that we get across those messages to our target audience in the most effective ways that we can to really make them think, oh, actually I'm going to be buying pork.

Charlotte: 00:21:28

I say that's something that I get very stuck in a rut and I know I can almost do autopilot around a shop and you suddenly get home and you think, I've got exactly the same as I had last week and probably the week before.

So I think it is great that having it sort of drip fed into you in different ways about different things you could be buying or things that you could be making. So, I mean, how did you come up with the sort of ide? Were you using insights or was it kind of just seeing what was out there and tweaking things?

Nic: 00:21:53

Yeah. So our last campaign was really successful, but it had been running its course. It had been going for about five to seven years.

So we do research all the time. So we knew that even though it was still performing, it was getting a little bit tired. So we wanted to refresh it.

We did extensive research in terms of understanding who our target audience are. So their habits, their shopping habits, what they eat, the family dynamics, what they watch on tv, you know, all their media consumption.

What motivates them? And then so we worked with our agencies and came up with this campaign which launched this time last year, British pork, but not as you know it.

We've been on TV and had two births now. So we launched last February, again in October.

And we always do pre and post campaign research, so we ask consumers what they think of the advertising, but also has it made themselves see pork in a different light. So those sort of key messages that I mentioned, we have those as attributes and we want to obviously drive those up.

So we have KPIs in terms of making sure that people see pork as good value for money, healthy, and also to drive that purchase intent. So has our advertising helped to spur people on to make those purchases? So we do research all year round and then we keep optimizing.

So we'll tweak a few things.

The TV advertising that really performed in terms of both the inspiration and giving people new news about pork, but also made them think, oh, actually, I want to go and purchase more. We actually saw the highest purchase intent levels after the October burst in the last four years, so that was really positive.

And all the other key metrics that we look at as well were all on a positive trajectory. So it's working well. But we keep fine tuning. So we know that video recipes particularly work well.

A lot of people you'll probably see on social media videos are the thing now, so we've really upped those a lot more and also started to work with influencers as well.

Charlotte: 00:23:50

Yeah. So you're saying that you like tweak things to keep them a bit fresh.

Who are the new people or the new partnerships that you've got involved this time round?

Nic: 00:23:57

We have been working with a lady called Mimi Harrison who does Beat the Budget names in the title. She does lots of content that's really about value.

So we've been working with her throughout the year, so now we've included her in this campaign burst.

She appeals to young and old and gives inspiration on terms of it could be lunches, could be evening meals, but it's just really good value meals that she puts across. And then we've also got a new lady called Beth. She goes by the name of Mealtime with Mummy and that's very much, again, a family audience.

So that's the audience we're driving. And she's got a lovely recipe. It's an easy hoisin stir fry and you can see her two kids in the video as well eating it.

So that sort of is a lovely nod to the Family audience. And then we've got Rebecca, who's more of a sort of health focus, and she's got a lovely comforting pork and apple meatball dish at the moment.

So we're using three different influencers with selection of different recipes to inspire, you know, the different people within our target audience.

Charlotte: 00:24:59

So who is our target audience, then? Is it your families? Is it your own people?

Nic: 00:25:02

It is families. Predominantly busy families. Busy families who like to cook but often get stuck in the rut. Give the families kids what they know that they like.

They do like to be healthy if they can, but that won't lead it. But, you know, have a nod to health. But it's very much. We call them our conscious convenience seekers.

So they do want to be having easy, quick meals, but they need to be tasty because they need to make sure that their kids and the whole of the family can eat them. And as we know from research, value is the number one at the moment in terms of what.

People are much more careful with their grocery shopping, so they don't want to just go and choose a new dish at a risk of a higher price and the kids not liking it so very much. That sort of family audience looking for tasty meals they can give their family on a budget.

Charlotte: 00:25:57

But I think it's also important to say, I haven't got kids, but there's me and my husband and these meals I can chuck in the freezer, so I can make them. And then. So, yes, it might be aiming at that family audience, but actually it can appeal to anyone.

Nic: 00:26:10

All the recipes, I should say are feeding a family of four or four portions for under six pounds. So whether it's one pound, 50 a portion, if you're not a family of four or not.

So when you go to our website, all of them on that page are under £6 for four people and healthy. That's one of the key messages we've got across all our social media is feeding a family of four for six pounds.

So really does land that value message?

Charlotte: 00:26:35

Yeah. So it's obviously in a number of places. Where could people be seeing it?

Nic: 00:26:40

So if you like Ant and Dirk, you'll be able to see it on Limitless Win and also Britain's Got Talent. Cause they're back on TV all the time. You might like a bit of Midsummer Murders or Hollyoaks. So it's across a range of different channels.

So you've got your terrestrial channels on tv. We're also on Catch up. So you can see it across a variety of different genres. And then we're also on Netflix, Disney, Discovery Channel.

So it's sort of across a variety of programmes, some sort of lifestyle ones. Some are more like this Feast with Jamie for A Fiver, whatever the new title is of his latest one.

So some are sort of more foodie ones, some are, you know, films, some are just your everyday lifestyle, coronation history and things like, as you say, I've.

Charlotte: 00:27:28

Definitely seen it on socials. So where is it on socials? Instagram, TikTok?

Nic: 00:27:32

Yes, Instagram, Facebook. We've also got Pinterest as well. So we know that Pinterest is quite effective in terms of that sort of food content. So it's across all of those.

We're also in store. So the retail team do a great job in terms of. Actually.

So, you know, you have the big TV to inspire, you've got the social media, like I said, when they're thinking about the shopping list, but then when you're in store, it's trying to get them to make that purchase. So we've got some great in store signage and online.

So we've got some shelf barkers, some tear off recipe leaflets, we've got some hanging banners, all sorts and stickers on packs. So then people can go to the website and then see all the other different recipes that they create with these dishes.

Charlotte: 00:28:16

Thanks so much, Nick, for joining us.

Kate: 00:28:18

Thank you.

Charlotte: 00:28:19

We're going to take a quick break now and on the other side, we'll be hearing a little bit more from Kate Jury.

Martin: 00:29:55

Listening to the Ag Show. I'm Martin Winch with Charlotte Faulks Rees. This week, if you do want to get in touch with us, it's agshowhdb.org uk that's the email address.

That's what Susie actually used it to get in touch to say, I want to hear more about wool.

Well, as you probably know from listening to the start of the show, we have already been talking about wool and I'm very pleased to say that Kate Drury from Sustainable Rope is still with us to talk a little bit more.

I'm quite interested in the whole balancing act because you've got the farm in Northamptonshire, you got the business up in Yorkshire, you've got your PhD that you're doing down in Gloucestershire, Cirencester. How do you juggle everything?

Kate: 00:30:43

Well, I'm not on the farm day to day, unfortunately, so my brother manages the farm and his children are there and my children go down a bit as well. So, yeah, I don't. But we now manufacture on the farm, which lets me go down there a lot more. And my brother and I make the rope together.

But to be honest, you can't sell something like wool rope online in the first instance. When I first made some and I was doing a talk and I was so nervous about doing the talk, I wasn't looking at people.

And a dear friend of mine came up to me afterwards and she said, did you see their faces when they held the rope? And I was like, no, I was way too stressed with my slides and where I was and what I wanted to say.

And she said, now, in the future, you just gotta watch people's faces. And it is people. You know, people go, I can't believe you can make rope out of wool. Which seems a really silly comment.

So to actually get that across to people and also to ensure that supply of wool from, you know, all the four nations, you can't sit behind a desk, you know, you have to be out there showing people. And then, you know, we will. I work across five industries now, you know, you have to go to them.

Charlotte: 00:31:55

It sounds like you've got extra hours in the day compared to me. I don't know how you do it.

Kate: 00:32:00

Well, no, I have to admit, I was in complete free fall. Cause I meant to write an academic paper for Tuesday.

Anyway, I got a text and to say they've pushed the deadline back a month and I'm not joking you how relieved I am. But.

Yeah, but the thing is though, is that the business and working for the UK farmers and the PhD, they're like three legs of one stool and you really can't achieve without having all those three legs. So, yeah, I would never advise doing a PhD alongside anything, anything else. But it's just the way it fell, really.

Charlotte: 00:32:35

As you say, when you're speaking about it to me, it feels like the research is helping to support with everything else. And I'd love to hear more about your PhD. Do you have a title for it yet?

Kate: 00:32:47

Yeah. Oh, gosh, I've been doing it for so long, I'm not dragging well, but it's.

Yeah, it's looking for a sustainable market for UK wool through the case study of using it in the seaweed industry. Industry. That's roughly.

Martin: 00:32:58

They always have long titles, don't they? It's like exactly what it says on the tin.

Kate: 00:33:03

Yeah, yeah, it's wall rope, new future, bit of seaweed.

Charlotte: 00:33:07

That's the, you know, TED Talk on it.

Kate: 00:33:11

Yeah, I think. I think you keep changing your title as you go along, aren't you?

Charlotte: 00:33:15

It's very much a work in progress with it. What have you been doing then as part of this PhD, you know, that you're working on? How far along are you and where are you kind of at with it?

Kate: 00:33:26

ight at the beginning, that's: 2022

And there was no real research in wool rope because it wasn't really commercially being manufactured.

So for a year I had ropes in three different environments on the farm, in ambient air, in fresh water and in brackish water, just to see that create a degradation process profile for the ropes. So they were in these environments for 365 days. And then I have a rope testing machine which is unique for wool rope and I have tested all 372 ropes.

But I also went out and did a scoping interviews with seaweed farmers just to understand right from the early days what were their drivers to transition. Are there any drivers? How hard is it to start?

Because seaweed has got huge opportunity because it's fast growing protein without any land competition. You know, just those points demonstrate how important it's going to be. And it's very, very hard to get set up.

The setup costs in licenses and stuff is huge.

Nic: 00:34:41

But what.

Kate: 00:34:41

Because I've been working with these seaweed farmers and I get to go out on the farm with them, which is brilliant. It's made me realize as a farmer on the land how hard it is.

Because you know when you go out in the morning and you hope you stock are where you left them and you can see them, you can get an idea of what's happening and they're progressing as they're. Most of them are pregnant now. But when you're in a boat and you literally put a hook out and you bring something up and you have.

You know, our very first time when we went out in Easter, I didn't even know if the ropes were still going to be there, let alone what was going to be on them. So it was really exciting and a brilliant day for me. But they've invested a lot of money in what is under that water.

So I came back with a lot of respect for seaweed farmers.

Charlotte: 00:35:22

So I don't know. I'd have been very good on a boat. I get quite seasick. So you might have had a great time, but I definitely wouldn't.

Kate: 00:35:28

Wouldn't it?

Nic: 00:35:30

Yeah.

Kate: 00:35:30

And that was in Scotland. And now work with the seaweed farmer on Rathlin, which is just off the coast of Northern Ireland. And those waters can be really rough.

So actually it's quite. Yeah, it's quite good.

Charlotte: 00:35:41

You're coming towards the end, I guess if you're at the write up point of your PhD. Yeah, fingers crossed. What do you want to do with this research?

Obviously a lot of it is helping to underpin your business, but what are your aims for for it?

Kate: 00:35:55

So there's two real outcomes. One obviously, like you said, is to demonstrate a profile in which then people can adopt.

And the seaweed farmers definitely are already adapting their farms to be able to use wool rope, which is a brilliant outcome just purely in itself. But the other part of the PhD is really about a sustainable market.

You know, that's two things really is that it's a lot more equity and equality in the supply chain so the farmer gets far better return for their wool. But also that transparency of we don't build, build the innovation up and then import foreign wool.

Nic: 00:36:30

Kate.

Martin: 00:36:31

I think that's about all we've got time for unfortunately. I could chat for for hours and hours. Sustainablerope.com I think is the website. We'll put a link to that on our show notes.

But one final question going back to the rope testing machine, have you tested anything other than rope in it? Because I'd be scouring the house for different things to stick in that just to see how quickly they break.

Kate: 00:36:53

No, because it's a painfully expensive machine.

Nic: 00:36:57

So I, yeah, I almost held down.

Kate: 00:36:59

To it before I turned it on. Yeah.

Martin: 00:37:01

Don't let me anywhere near it.

Kate: 00:37:03

Yeah, I don't let anyone near it.

Charlotte: 00:37:08

It's been lovely having you join me again, Martin. I mean, as much as I miss Hannah, it's great having you co host with me.

Martin: 00:37:14

Yeah. And I feel I broke a promise because last week I said Hannah would be with returning and clearly I have lied. Well, unintentionally anyway.

But Hannah will be back at some point in the very near future.

Charlotte: 00:37:29

You're hedging your bets there.

Martin: 00:37:32

It's all go for us AHDB colleagues. So we do do a lot of work. So the podcast is just one of the many things that we get up to in our day to day life.

Kate: 00:37:43

Yeah.

Charlotte: 00:37:44

I think she'll be upset though that she missed some great interviews there. So Kate was incredible to talk to such an interesting lady doing lovely things.

Martin: 00:37:54

I still can't believe she hasn't put something. I don't know. I'd be getting my kids Barbie dolls and sticking them in the road testing machine.

See whether Ken can outlast Barbie or something like that.

Charlotte: 00:38:07

Yes, a good job that you are. No, nowhere near them. And it was great as well to have Nick Dodd on.

So she's part of our pork marketing team and talking about the campaign, which is currently live British pork, but not as you know it. But that is all that we do have time for this week. Make sure that you are subscribed. New episodes drop every Wednesday at midday.

And if you want to get in touch with us, use our social channels, use our email, agshowdb.orguk we do love to hear from you. And if you do have suggestions for a guest for us to feature on a future show, let us know, because that's how we got Kate on and she was great.

So we will catch you in the next episode.

Martin: 00:38:53

Bye.

Kate: 00:39:00

Sam.