Farming and rewilding - a tale of two ecosystems! Plus, the Pork Environmental Roadmap

Martin: 00:00:00

Welcome back, Charlotte. I mean, it's only two weeks we've been without you, but just seems like a whole host of things have happened.

I mean, my beloved Coventry City are back in the Premier League. We have had two really good episodes without you. I'm just trying to think. You've got a bit of a suntan.

Charlotte: 00:00:20

I mean, I'm not gonna be offended that you just said two really good episodes without me. I'm gonna take that as, oh, we managed to soldier on without you. We're so pleased to have you back. But, yes, I.

Some lovely R and R very much would encourage anyone. Get the chance, take some time, spend it with the people you love, chill out. It is good for the soul. So, yes, a little bit of a suntan also helps.

Martin: 00:00:44

How many emails did you come back to?

Charlotte: 00:00:46

You don't want to know. It was horrific. Especially all the ones from you, Martin. Oh, honestly,

Martin: 00:00:53

I just had to tell someone that Coventry had been promoted. I'm sorry.

Martin: 00:01:11

Hi, I'm producer Martin.

Charlotte: 00:01:13

I was expecting Hannah, if I'm completely honest, but. Hi, I'm Charlotte Forkes-Rees, and welcome to The AG Show.

Martin: 00:01:21

You were expecting Hannah? To be fair, I was expecting Phil again, but I'm happy to be actually, given I'm the producer. My third choice to come in and present this.

It'll be fine. Coming up, we'll be hearing from a beef and dairy who lives next door to a rewilder.

Charlotte: 00:01:39

That's right. Their disagreements over how they should use their land has become the subject of a new film.

Derek: 00:01:45

You know, he teases me about my hedges because I trim my hedges every year and he don't trim his at all. But he did admit this spring and I got a lot more wild flowers in my hedges. And he's very jealous.

Charlotte: 00:01:57

And we'll find out more about the pork environmental roadmap post Covid.

Hugh: 00:02:02

More questions were being asked, particularly by retailers about. Well, hang on a minute. What sort of environmental impact does this pig meat have? Can you tell us?

And the sector council decided we ought to have a go.

Martin: 00:02:15

A reminder, new episodes of the Ag show drop every Wednesday at midday. Available wherever you get your podcasts with.

Charlotte: 00:02:23

Audio and video versions for every show. Just subscribe to make sure you don't miss an episode and get in touch.

Martin: 00:02:31

Young or old, big or small, we'd love to hear from you, comment on any of our social posts or email. Agshohdb.

Charlotte: 00:02:41

I think it's safe to say farming's an industry packed full of opinions.

And a new film documentary looks to Explore this by taking us to a quiet Devon lane where one hedge separates two completely different versions of British farming.

Martin: 00:02:58

Yes. Derek vs Derek features a couple of farmers. Guess what they're called. Yes, that's right, Derek.

One runs an intensive dairy unit, the other one's gone all in on rewilding. And here's the trailer, minus a few expletives.

Derek: 00:03:14

It's like he's gone mad. This is the difference now. This is my farm edge, which has been trimmed. And this is a rewilding edge here. What a bloody mess.

Derek G: 00:03:28

Every year he comes to see me and says, would you like your hedgerows cut, Derek? And every year I say off.

Derek: 00:03:42

Population's getting bigger. It's not going smaller and everybody's going to be happy if they've got full bellies. Oh, this is good maize. Look at this. And that's up to me head.

Derek G: 00:03:57

This is my land and I'm going to heal it to create life.

Derek: 00:04:04

What Derek's doing is such a mess. He's spoiling good land.

Derek G: 00:04:10

The country start. They'll understand what they know. I know it says con artist. There you go. No, I don't care.

Derek: 00:04:20

We're talking about reintroducing the wolves in England.

Derek G: 00:04:23

How are you thinking about it?

Derek: 00:04:25

Not good. Not good. Why not talk to campers and see if they want a load of wolves eating them up the ass.

In the last 70 years, we lost more animals, insects, than the 11,000 years before. They're lovely birds.

Derek G: 00:04:41

They used to be here. Then they were made extinct.

Derek: 00:04:44

They could be made extinct again, perhaps.

Derek G: 00:04:48

I want change.

Derek: 00:04:50

I want change.

Charlotte: 00:05:01

I'm pleased to say. Joining the Ag show is one of the Derricks, beef and dairy farmer Derek, as well as the film's director, James Dawson.

And just for the record, we have requested to speak to Derek Gow on a future episode. It's not that there's been a huge bust up before recording, which means that he's not here. Unless I've heard that wrong.

James: 00:05:26

No, he'd love to come on, I'm sure.

Charlotte: 00:05:28

So, James, I hope you don't mind if we start with you.

Now, we know that our farmers hear a lot about rewilding, environment, all those type of things, and actually, usually it does come through from people that perhaps don't farm themselves or necessarily know what's behind all of this. So why did you think that this was a story that was worth telling right now? And was there anything that you were sort of hesitant about doing this?

James: 00:05:54

Well, I thought it was a story to tell now because, well, Because I'm worried about biodiversity loss.

And my reading about that and my understanding of it is that it's, despite all these changes, subsidies and all that kind of thing, it's not actually improving much, but we're on a downward trajectory, which is just, I think, very worrying. I used to work on a farm when I was a teenager and there was quite a lot of nature around.

And now when I go into fields on a conventional farm, it's very quiet. And there's only one reason for that, and that's because there's far fewer insects and far fewer birds, much less of.

And we've lost lots of species, are in rapid decline. So how do you tell a story like that? Because in a way, it's an absence, isn't it? It's something that's gone.

So I went and I did some research and I found Derek Gow, who's Derek Banbury's neighbor. And I hadn't met Derek Banbury at this point, and I thought, he's trying to do.

He's a bit madcap, he's a bit maverick, and he's doing very oddball things. You know, a lot of people think he's a bit crazy, but he had a passion for what he was doing.

And he wasn't a sort of rich landowner who, you know, was taking their time and, oh, I'll just close the gate and let nature come back.

He was sort of transforming his farm and also breeding lots of these endangered species and bringing animals back that, of course, had been wiped out in Britain. Storks and beavers.

But then about six months into that, I realized that some of the wild boar Derek had on his farm were getting out and causing havoc for his neighbors.

And of course, I went to see Derek Banbury, who was having problems with wild boar, and some of the escapees were coming to visit him on his patch of land. But what was terrific about meeting Derek was that he had a totally different point of view about what the land is for.

And he was very committed to, you know, what farm, you know, good farmers want, which is to grow food, feed the nation, you know, he had a very tidy, neat farm.

He had a really beautifully well kept herd, and he looked over the hedge every day and he, in despair and frustration and horror, you know, all the ponds that were being dug. And I want to say that he didn't hate Derek, his other neighbor.

And it wasn't a kind of nasty, acrimonious relationship, because Derek Gow used to be a farmer. He was the sheep farmer. And they known each other 20 years or so. And what was nice about it, it was.

It reminded me a bit of an Ealing comedy, you know, where they have a banter and they're against each other, but deep down it's not a nastiness.

Charlotte: 00:08:37

I was gonna say, Derek, I think this might be a great point for you to tell us a little bit more about you. I'd love to know more about your background and, you know, what your experience within farming has always been. Perhaps.

Derek: 00:08:48

Yeah. I Left school at 15. My father was home on the farm. We only had a small farm then,148 acres.

And father was desperate for some help and so you automatically stay home and start helping and then you get tied in and then you don't want to go nowhere else or if you wanted to, you couldn't, so you get tied in and then you start building up your herd and then you want to acquire more land, so you start building up empire, what we got today. And so I could pass it on to my son. Yeah.

Martin: 00:09:23

With farming, obviously it is your livelihood, but do you feel as though farmers have that responsibility to work in tandem with nature?

Derek: 00:09:33

Oh, yes, in nature. You can't do nothing without nature. I do agree with James. There isn't so many bees and all that around. I grew up with curlews, my father.

We had rough marshland in the middle of fields and there was curlews there and. And they used to build their nests there and father used to say, oh, keep away from that area and don't cut that area, let them.

And then of course the government brings in government grants to re. Drain all the land which we took up. And then you plow your fields, reseed on to get a better because that's what the government promoted.

And then bye bye curlews, you don't see them again, like, you know, because there isn't enough wetland for our muscles.

Martin: 00:10:15

There's a quote from the other Derek which sort of caught my eye. He says that if we keep on this course, we'll be left living on a planet full of pigeons and dogs on the beaten down crust of our own excrement.

Does he have a point? Are there any elements to what Mr. Gao is about that you say, actually I can learn from him to an extent.

There are elements of his actions that I would incorporate, but just not be going all in like he obviously is.

Derek: 00:10:45

That's right, yes. Because food is wanted in this world, isn't it?

Because we have these wars now and in the last six weeks, last eight weeks, They've been talking about foods.

You wait, you wait directly with the price of fertilizer and the fuel, there'll be empty, empty shelves in supermarkets, I'm sure because you know, I'm shocked at the price of stock. Your animals, what they're selling like at the moment, your calves, you know, 5, 600 pound, it's, it's enormous price.

And luckily we got our own, we got our own cows and we keep all our own calves. And yeah, it's different, if different days ahead of us.

Charlotte: 00:11:26

It sounds like it can be quite challenging at times, perhaps farming next to Mr. Gow, seeing as he's almost the one extreme, isn't he, where it's very much going back to nature. But actually what is it like farming next door to him? Is it chasing back wild boar every other day or is it not too bad?

Derek: 00:11:47

It used to be we, we did a couple of years ago we had wild boar.

Charlotte: 00:11:51

Did you help him refence by any chance to keep him out?

Derek: 00:11:56

I went out to see the cattle one day and I looked down the bottom of the field and I said this mess around the trees down the bottom of course. And I thought well that's badgers. I thought it was badgers in a way. And then I took a closer look and I seen it was pigs, wild boar.

I got home and rung Derek and said derek, have you lost any wild boar? He said oh yes, a couple have escaped. I said I think I found them, I'm in my field. He said, well Derek, no, we didn't fall out or nothing.

James: 00:12:26

The other Derek was telling me that he suspects they might be back, but he's not saying that they're his ball but they're coming from somewhere else. So be on the watch out Derek.

Derek: 00:12:38

Derek's very lucky. He gets all these philanthropists.

These rich people come down and visit him and they give him lots of money and then he goes and buys more land and turn it into wild wilderness, real world, any cold it and wow, he's lucky.

Charlotte: 00:12:55

Has there been anything else that you see that he does and you think oh actually that's not a bad idea. Maybe that's something I could think about doing.

Derek: 00:13:02

Nothing he do's I want to take up myself.

James: 00:13:04

Well, you have Derek, you did talk about thinking. You were thinking about ponds, weren't you? Or is that.

Derek: 00:13:11

Well, we got one pond already. I was. We got a fence off some areas. We, we got a fence in Grant and there are certain areas I'm going to cordon off for.

Not that not let the animals in there and keep it a haven for. For wildlife because, you know, it's no good for cattle.

Cattle get in there and they get into mischief and they start, you know, they hurt their self.

James: 00:13:35

How would you characterize your living next door to Derek Gow? Because he does do some wild things, doesn't he?

Derek: 00:13:41

I don't mind. He's, he's, you know, he's all right and we get on all right together, but I just don't like what he does, you know, he's.

He goes in the field and previous farmers have drained and made into a nice field and then he goes and digs up all the drains and makes a leisure. Wild areas and wetlands and all that. I suppose he knows what he's doing, so we just let him go.

And there's a big debate in other farmers talking about it, but we can't do nothing about it, can we? And live and let live.

James: 00:14:16

Of course, he's releasing the storks now as well.

Derek: 00:14:18

That's right.

James: 00:14:21

You weren't so sure about having. Because they're like you, because you were slightly higher up the valley, aren't you?

Derek: 00:14:27

He teases me a bit and he says, oh, Derek, the storks will be soon be up to see you and they'll be on your shed, your roofs. And I said, I say, well, they won't be there very long, Derek. I didn't say what happens.

Martin: 00:14:41

I think we'll look into your relationship with Derek Gower a little bit later on. But for now, let's pause the conversation there. We'll be back with Derek Banbury and James Dawson later in the show.

But coming up shortly, we'll be hearing about the new Pork Environmental Roadmap.

Charlotte: 00:16:54

Something of note that AHDB's been involved with is the new environmental roadmap for the pork sector. It aims to cut emissions, protect natural resources and keep British pig production competitive.

Martin: 00:17:07

And I'm pleased to say that we're joined by the pork sector council member and chair in pork, more importantly, the chair of the Pork Environmental Roadmap Steering Group, Hugh Crabtree, to explain exactly what this means in practice for producers and the wider supply chain. Hugh, many thanks for joining us on the Ag Show. Just a quick up some. To begin with, what is the environmental roadmap?

And also, why did you feel now was the right time to launch it for the pork sector?

Hugh: 00:17:36

Okay, good start. The roadmap is a description of where the pig industry. Well, actually, let's be clear about this.

Not pig industry, but prime production pig farmers are at the moment to the Farm Gate with their environmental impact and then suggesting an action plan with a focus on some specific areas, an action plan to keep progressing in the direction of producing pork meat protein with the least possible impact on the environment.

So in answer to the question about, you know, why now post Covid more questions were being asked, particularly by retailers about, well, hang on a minute, what sort of environmental impact does this pig meat have? Can you tell us?

And the sector council decided it would be a good idea to despite the fact that their environment wasn't a priority for levy payers at the time. We ought to display a bit of leadership and have a go.

So the conclusion was let's get an industry group of stakeholders together to help the professionals at AHDB to draft a new roadmap. We have had roadmaps before, but it's a while so it seemed this was the right time to be doing it again.

A lot of pressure from consumers and from retailers which I am sure everybody listening to this will be very familiar with.

And for the younger generation who are probably more interested in the environment than they are, it's not that they don't care about animal welfare, but they sort of assume we're looking after that already and they want to know can they eat pig meat and have a relatively clear conscience with respect to environmental impact?

Charlotte: 00:19:32

You've made that sound very simple for something that is clearly not simple at all. But what are some of the main environmental challenges that this roadmap is aiming to try and address?

Hugh: 00:19:42

We're fairly focused on actually seven priority areas.

I mean there could be lots of priority areas and I guess 7 is a reasonably big number, but they are net carbon, air quality, water, water use, slurry and manure and nutrients and how that impacts the environment, biodiversity, waste and recycling and on farm energy. So those are the seven priority areas. But the first thing we wanted to do as a steering group was to say, well, where are we now?

You know, there's been quite a long time since the last time we did any assessment of this, so where are we now? So we absolutely insisted that we conducted a new so called life cycle analysis to Farm Gate.

And interestingly what that illustrated was a good news story since the last time that we did any measurement of this sort. Pig production on farm has got much more efficient and, and more productive.

last time we looked, between: 2008

So, bearing in mind those seven priority areas, the thing which dominates is feed, feed use, the production of the feed, all of those processes in arable husbandry to get the feed together, transporting it, storing it, transporting it to a factory, grinding it all up, mixing it with other stuff, carrying it to the farm, sticking it down the peg. That's the piece of the jigsaw, which accounts for way, way, way, the biggest proportion of our impact on the environment.

Therefore, what we're going to do is produce more pig meat for less feed.

Martin: 00:21:55

With this roadmap, from what you've just said, it's clear that actually you're going to be balancing environmental goals with farm profitability and food production. If, you know, feed is the central part of this.

Hugh: 00:22:08

Quite.

So where the conflict typically lies is actually between satisfying our welfare objectives and also satisfying our environmental sustainability objectives. We've got to find that balance and get that right. And it's not easy.

Charlotte: 00:22:29

So it sounds like, actually there's a lot of interpretation to an extent that comes through this, and obviously I know that every farm is different, but if you were gonna be speaking to our pig farmer listener, are there any key actions or changes which you would be encouraging on farm? Just generically at this point, they're already.

Hugh: 00:22:48

Pretty good at being efficient and managing the process. Well. The trouble with being already pretty good is that leaves you thinking, well, there's nothing much more I can do.

And a really good example of this is on farm energy use. We had Levy charged against us in agriculture for prime energy use, and we've been pretty good at getting more efficient about that.

And starting from the blindingly obvious, turn the lights off now, we've got a double down on seeing how we think we've done a good job. Is there more we can do? Can we be better? Can we be more consistent? Can we pay more attention to detail?

And the short answer to that is, yes, we can, because we're not in commercial production yet, achieving the kind of productivity that we see in specialist feed trials.

Martin: 00:23:47

map's setting it out up until: 2030

Hugh: 00:23:55

Our roadmap is not tablets of stone. It's a snapshot of where we are now. And it's absolutely crucial that we don't regard this as the end of the process.

This is just the beginning of the next phase. And the next phase is to use what we've established, which is where we are now, to move forward and progress further.

And we expect to be redoing the LCA, the lifecycle assessment, every five years.

nd since this one was done in: 2023

We already have the technology to be measuring emissions, particularly thinking about the kind of environment impact that the neighbors notice, you know, smell and all that sort of stuff. There's more data that we already have if we could make better use of it.

For example, in water use, an awful lot of prime producers are now measuring water consumption and we need to invest a little bit of wetware in thinking about how we can gather up all of that water data and find out what we really use in pig production, because that's a relatively simple one to have a go at. So we want to engage with pig farmers to have a go at piloting new technology, come across with ideas they're trying and give us some case studies.

Just get the flywheel of engagement and community education running. Which is why my involvement with this podcast is really useful to sort of get and try and get the thing kicked up and started.

There'll be a lot more chat about all of this at the Pig and Poultry Fair in a few weeks, of course.

Charlotte: 00:25:53

Fab.

Thanks so much, Hugh, and I'm sure for any of our pig farmers that might be listening, if you've got any questions on any of this, please do reach out. You can either do so via the show or we've got loads more information available on our website.

Next, we'll be back with beef and dairy farmer Derek Banbury and film director James Dawson. You're listening to the Ag show with producer Martin and me, Charlotte.

Remember, we love to hear from you, so do feel free to get in touch across any of our socials or email us@agshowhdb.org UK.

But I think it's time to come back to talking about the film Derek vs Derek, which pits Devon beef and dairy farmer Derek Banbury against his neighbour, former sheep farmer and now rewilder Derek Gow. And we have Derek Banbury and the film's director, James Dawson. Here is our guests now.

Derek, I've seen that your wife is perhaps a very good cake maker and that is actually where I want to start with this. Does she like to traipse across the road to go and give other Derek bits of cake Is she a traitor in the midst or is she very firmly on your side?

Derek: 00:28:41

She do entertain him a lot. He comes up here, we, we do bed.

My wife do sped and breakfast and we got already cottages and a lot of his friends and, and visitors come here and stay and we give him breakfast and he sometimes he joins them for breakfast.

Charlotte: 00:28:56

I hope you charge him.

Derek: 00:28:57

Wow. That's up to my wife. Yeah, hopefully. Yeah, charge him Double ale.

Charlotte: 00:29:03

Yeah, and the rest. What's the best cake that she makes?

Derek: 00:29:07

Lemon drizzle. Yes, she likes that.

Charlotte: 00:29:09

And yeah, I was gonna say maybe. James, I need to ask you what's the best cake? Cause hopefully she plied you with lots of cake during this filming.

James: 00:29:16

She's a great cake maker. Yeah. And if you go to stay, you get, you get treated.

You know there's cakes in the rooms where you stay and you know, it's quite a big event going into the Banbury sort of farmhouse where everyone's around the kitchen table and Linda's made lots of things and so it's a very social, it's very convivial and it's lovely.

Charlotte: 00:29:36

Considering obviously it can be quite nice and friendly.

Does that extend to your discussions perhaps when you are having disagreements with Derek Gow, you know, you have a number of face to face discussions and you know, it doesn't have to be with shouting. Do you find that that is a good way to kind of get each other's point across?

Derek: 00:29:53

Yeah, we joke and I laugh at him and he laughs at me and you know, he teases me about my hedges because I trim my hedges every year and he don't trim his at all.

But he did admit this spring I got a lot more wild flowers in my edges and he's very jealous because I've let all the light in and all the wild flowers this spring is blooming.

Charlotte: 00:30:17

Now, James, from your side, when you were making this film, what were some of the key things that you learned? Were there things around, you know, policy versus reality?

Obviously you've got your previous experience from being on farm and the things that you're interested in as perhaps a consumer and a member of the public now. But did you find that actually there were things you hadn't considered that could be challenges when you were making this film?

James: 00:30:41

I mean, I'm no expert, only my own experiences, only as a youth.

The whole hedge issue between the two Dereks was absolutely fascinating and there's a, you know, and then you've realized there's different subsidies for doing different hedge cutting and all this and you think, wow, didn't know any of that, so. Absolutely. And I.

My starting point with a lot of this stuff is that, well, if I don't know, as someone who's interested in this subject, then I assume most of the general public don't either. So I think that's sort of a rich ground for the. Try and explore something.

I always think you should tell people in films that some stuff they don't know about. And what was really interesting for me was to try and explain this link between productivity and the loss of nature.

There needs to be a solution to that. And I don't know what it is, but I thought that was really interesting to kind of explore in a film with two enjoyable characters.

You know, people that I liked both. I liked them. And they both got a really different points of view. Don't want to give the ending away.

But I would say that our nice friend here, Derek, sort of started remembering what it used to be like on the farm when he was a lad.

And I think a lot of those memories and a lot of those thoughts, I sort of played on that a bit because I thought, yes, that was what things, you know, when there was more nature. So I think there was a bit of a thought process going on in. In Derek's mind about, you know, but it doesn't.

He doesn't change his mind about running a good farm. It's not. That's not what he's doing, but I think it's made him reflect a bit. What are you. What you say, Derek?

Because we've been filming for about three years, which is quite a long time on and off.

Derek: 00:32:14

I'm solely for producing food, really. That's all. My aim is to pay the bills. Because the bills these days you don't. You realize, are enormous.

Whatever you touch, you've got a piece of equipment breaks down now you end the thousands of pounds, your bills. And hey, bills got to be paid. So, you know, luckily beef is selling well. Beef.

We sell store cattle, we take them to market and somebody buys them to fatten them. We can't keep them them till they're really fat because we got too many.

We rear every calf and try to look after them so well as we can all their life. And then we sell them as store cattle and the store cattle is selling them really good.

So, you know, food security is alive and people are thinking about food all the time.

Charlotte: 00:33:03

So when you were producing this, James, when you started out, did you want to come to a conclusion or were you kind of more aiming this, that actually you just wanted people to start thinking and almost. There probably isn't a right or a wrong an answer to how they should be approaching their farming.

But so long as they've thought about it, that's all you can really ask for.

James: 00:33:23

In my heart of hearts, I know that I want farming to be much more nature friendly, I suppose. I don't know, there's lots of variations of that, but, yeah, I wanted that.

But I suppose the truth is I'm also making a film for the general public to try and understand what's going on when they look out the window and they go. Because my starting point was, you know, you look at Britain, it's still got that lovely green, you know, at this time of year in spring.

Looks wonderful, so much of it.

But, you know, the truth of the matter is it's a slight illusion about what in the reality is much more difficult, which is that this huge biodiversity loss has happened. And in a way we don't see it as, you know, we all live in towns, most of us, you know, so all the town. He's got no idea about this.

And so I wanted to try and tell that story and I hope the film does that, but I haven't got a prescription about how to solve this, but problems, but I think they do need solving.

Charlotte: 00:34:13

So where can people watch this film? I think it's certainly going to be of interest to our listeners, but where would they be able to see this?

James: 00:34:20

It's on a big festival coming up soon in June at a documentary film festival which is going to be announced very soon. I can't say what it is, but it's a really big deal for us.

And then from after that, we are trying to mount a campaign to kind of get the film on in farming communities, agricultural colleges.

And our idea is, because you've got Derek versus Derek, maybe in, you know, Northumberland, you've got a Daphne and a Diana who could represent different sides of this argument. I'll have a discussion about it. We don't need, we don't want a slanging match. In fact, what we want is this debate to happen.

So over the summer, we hope very much that farmers will be able to see it. And we're going to. Got lots of venues already signed up all around the country. And then in the autumn, it's going to be on in cinemas.

We've got a website, it's called, not surprisingly, Derekversderek.com so people can go and find out where it's going to be on and sign up for a screening if they like.

Charlotte: 00:35:19

We can certainly make sure that the website is linked in our show notes for you and also can pass on any information if anyone wants to get in touch.

And we really do hope that we get to speak to Derek Gow and get all of his side of the story, see if it is quite as amicable as you're pitching it to be.

But in the we do wish you every success in getting this film screened and looking forward to lots of healthy debate from everyone on both sides of the lane, as we'll put it this time. Well, what an episode.

I think, though, Martin, we missed a trick by not going down to Derek's farm and having lemon drizzle with him and his wife for that interview. It was, it would have been fabulous, I think, to get to see the hedge in real life and quite how different they are, let's be honest.

Martin: 00:36:09

We've still got to speak to Derek Gow. So road trip? Absolutely, I think so.

Certainly be back next week with plenty of stuff, including possibly talking about sweet potatoes and how we import them in this country. Stay tuned for that one. In the meantime, if you want to get in touch, ag show hdb.org but it's been a couple of weeks, so goodbye.

I shall leave to you, Charlotte.

Charlotte: 00:36:36

Bye.