Farmer Tom, resilience and innovation in farming and value versus convenience

Charlotte: 00:00:00

I hear you were dusting off your experimental mad scientist jacket at the weekend, Hannah.

Hannah: 00:00:05

I went and made some gin. Yeah. So maybe I was. Me and my best mate from home went and we went into Birmingham and we went to a gin workshop. So we were.

It was like being back at school in chemistry class. We were all lined up on like a bench with little copper pots and stills and condensing tubes and.

Yeah, it was a bit mad science y, actually, but fun because we made alcohol at the end of it and no, no explosions. No explosions. So we were tasting the gin as we were doing it. That was quite spicy. When you make gin, it changes along the distilling process.

So it starts off like really just like hot, like neat alcohol. And then as you go along, the botanicals start to come through and then towards the end it just suddenly turns awful and disgusting.

So maybe it was a flavour explosion.

Charlotte: 00:00:53

I just get the cheap gin from the supermarket and chuck some stuff in it to flavour it up. But you've probably done a much better job. Hi, I'm Charlotte Forkes-Rees. Reese.

Hannah: 00:01:17

I'm Hannah Clark and welcome to The AG Show.

Charlotte: 00:01:19

Where food and farming matters.

Hannah: 00:01:23

This week's big interview features Tom Martin, aka Farmer Tom, who's the keynote speaker at AHDB's Big Scottish Crops Conference next month. Say that five times fast.

Charlotte: 00:01:35

Another Tom, our very own Tom Spencer, caught up with him before he heads north of the border to talk about resilience in farming.

Farmer Tom: 00:01:43

We're thinking exactly just about the here and now, but actually soil health is something you build over years and I think mental health is something you focus on over years as well.

Hannah: 00:01:52

Farmer Tom also revealed how he's using AI to help his business.

Farmer Tom: 00:01:57

What I've been looking at doing and starting to do in a very loose way is to create effectively an AI clone of our farm. So feed in all the data, run a load of models.

Charlotte: 00:02:05

We'll also delve into some of the work I've been doing, looking at where consumers are trying to find that balance between value and convenience.

Hannah: 00:02:15

And more confusing farming terms and acronyms are explained as Charlotte and I try our hand at being field agents.

Charlotte: 00:02:24

A reminder, new episodes of the Ag show drop every Wednesday at midday. Available wherever you get your podcasts, with.

Hannah: 00:02:33

Audio and video versions for every show. Just subscribe to make sure you don't.

Charlotte: 00:02:38

Miss an episode and get in touch. We love to hear from you. Comment on any of our social posts or email. Agshowdb.org.uk feels a bit odd doing this, because normally it's Tom's job.

But I think it's now time for the news. Hannah, what have you been reading?

Hannah: 00:02:59

A couple of pieces have caught my eye from Farmers Weekly over the last couple of weeks. I think we will first head down to rural Suffolk for quite an interesting story.

Three local doctors have launched a new virtual reality that's quite hard to say.

The virtual reality training tool to help GPs and medical students get a better understanding of the unique mental health challenges that farmers face.

It's called the Rural Mines Project and it tackles quite a big gap because most medical students train in big urban areas and hospitals and not necessarily out in the countryside where farmers are operating. So they often miss the kind of specific risks and stresses affecting rural communities.

In particular, this program uses VR headsets, and with these headsets, medical professionals can essentially dive straight into everyday farming scenarios. It's all filmed with actors on real Suffolk farms in a GP surgery as well.

It gives trainees an immersive sense of the pressures that farmers kind of deal with. And now back to actual reality. Here's a story that a lot of farmers across England will be talking about.

The Environment Agency is warning that unless we get a properly wet winter, the country is on track for a spring drought next year.

If winter rainfall falls short, drought conditions could tighten their grip, meaning reduced irrigation, lower veg production and more pressure on grass growth and winter feed.

And farmers are being advised to fill reservoirs early, switch to more drought tolerant crops or at least consider them, and, you know, collaborate locally where they can on water sharing plans to stay ahead of any of the restrictions. And this is in true British weather fashion because we've just about got over the soaking from storm Claudia.

So it's a real mix of extremes at the moment. Flood warnings in the near past, but a serious drought risk on the horizon. So as always, the British weather keeps us on our toes.

But Charlotte, what have you been reading around this week?

Charlotte: 00:05:15

Wow. I want to start with a really nice piece of good news.

There was recently a night of celebration at the National Pig Awards and you can read all about this both in Pig World but also on our website, because huge congratulations to our very own Zanita Markham, winner of the Chris Brandt Award. So this accolade honors those who go that extra mile for the pig sector and often this is behind the scenes.

So Zanita's work has been pivotal, pivotal, leading environmental research, shaping ammonia policy and ensuring producers have the guidance they need to stay sustainable and compliant. There was also a moving moment. So the David Black Award was presented posthumously to Robert Beckett A respected pig farmer and industry leader.

So Robert's influence stretched from beyond his own business.

He served not only on our HDB Pork Sector Council, but championed WELF standards, brought integrity and insight to each of the roles that he undertook, and his family accepted the award to a standing ovation. So a real fitting tribute to a man whose passion clearly never wavered.

And I think it's important to recognise and celebrate, you know, two remarkable individuals both playing their part in shaping the future of our industry and carrying on with some of that celebratory feel. My next piece is actually around gin and actually that's quite fitting given how we started this episode.

But I was reading recently in the grocer about the EU's Court of Justice ruling that non alcoholic beverage cannot be labeled as gin. Why, might you ask? Well, gin is a protected term and it must be at least 37.5% ABV and made by flavoring ethyl alcohol with juniper berries.

Now, why has this got me thinking? Well, we saw something similar happen with milk, so that is a protected term for dairy products, so.

Meaning it can't be used for the likes of oat, soya, coconut based drinks.

But interestingly, we're not quite there yet for meat, so we do have those geographic protected names, so Yamelta Mowbray, Pork Pie for instance, but not for the likes of preventing plant based products being called steak, sausage or even a meatball. So quite interesting from my reading that we see that alcohol has been protected first above that of the red meat that we produce.

Hannah: 00:07:52

Priorities, guys. Yeah, it's a bit of a contentious one, the old steak that's not a steak.

Charlotte: 00:07:57

Yeah, come on then, Hannah, let's crack on now. There's something of a red letter day next month. No, I don't mean Christmas or Boxing Day. I'm talking about Thursday 11th December.

Hannah: 00:08:12

That's right, because that's when we stage the Big Scottish Crops Conference at the James Hutton Instit in Dundee.

Charlotte: 00:08:21

Tom Martin is the keynote speaker.

And for those who can't make it, our very own Tom, that's Tom Spencer, caught up with Farmer Tom to get some tips about his farm and find out how he's turned it into a modern, profitable arable business using sustainable practices.

Hannah: 00:08:41

There's just too many Toms, in my opinion. I really think one of us should have done that interview, Charlotte. Anyway, non ag show Tom.

That's Farmer Tom or Tom Martin, not Tom Spencer began by explaining more about his farm.

Farmer Tom: 00:08:56

We are a family farm, medium sized family farm, just west of Peterborough Farm, right up to the Peterborough services on the A1M. Very exciting part of the world. A lot's going on at the moment. We are mainly arable. We farm on a clay belt, the Oxford clay belt.

And to the west of us we can see lovely free draining limestone soil. To the east we can see wonderful deep, peaty fence soil. And we, we have the privilege and the challenge of farming some pretty heavy clay.

It's done us pretty well in the last few years. We've had really dry times, but it means we've got to think a lot about our soils and our drainage in particular. It's not holding onto water, it's.

It's often shedding it.

Tom: 00:09:35

On that topic of sort of resilience when it comes to soil health, but also I know you're quite big into the mental health side of things. How is that sort of balanced in.

Farmer Tom: 00:09:45

Your head, soil health and mental health? I think thinking long term, you know, often in farming we're thinking quite short term. What does this crop need? What application does it need now?

What nutrient does it need now? And we're thinking exactly just about the here and now.

But actually soil health is something you build over years and I think mental health is something you focus on over years as well. Doesn't mean it can't be recovered quickly. If it's. Soil health takes a lot longer to build, I tell you, than mental health.

Sometimes just a nice sunny day like today and a chance to think these are the good days just helps lift you.

Tom: 00:10:17

It's a bit of a buzzword these days, regenerative farming, but I'm sure you've got a view on how farms can look at their soil health potentially. Maybe not dive in too quickly into the world of regenerative, but a sort of long term approach to it.

Farmer Tom: 00:10:33

You know, we spoke about soil health and mental health actually. I think the regenerative side of things, it starts with a mindset. Some people find the regenerative label pretty divisive. Is this regenerative?

Is it not regenerative?

If you're thinking like that, if you're thinking longer term, if you're considering that long term, soil health, if you're trying to effectively does what it says on the tin to kind of regenerate to make the land healthier, I think you're there. I think we worry about these labels a little bit too much.

Tom: 00:11:02

It's quite interesting when we touch on something like diversification, but also posing that. Does British food need to be profitable without diversification first and Foremost, possibly diversification should be maybe an additional risk.

Farmer Tom: 00:11:18

Yeah, I mean, you've reached my dad's favorite topic. Who always says the government doesn't say to doctors, have you thought about putting a coffee shop in the surgery just to help your profit margin?

You know, of course, and that's a really compelling point, but that's the situation we are in at the moment, is that, is that we do need to consider diversification as part of our, as part of our business portfolio.

And you know, looking at our business, we would, our profits would be very different if we didn't have, you know, a couple of rental properties, you know, doing a couple of elements of diversification and if we didn't have some of the kind of government stewardship schemes as well to kind of fit into that matrix. Diversification is part of what we are and where we are. So, you know, I think we've got to work with that.

Tom: 00:12:00

No year is the same every year. So in those years where things have miraculously gone well, I know we don't hear farmers talk about those years often.

They normally focus on the ones which aren't going as well. But it's that year that the farming systems can make a profit, however small.

But maybe it's in those worse years where a sort of diversification of risk, to put it, can become a balancing act. Would that be right?

Farmer Tom: 00:12:24

Yeah, that's, that's the answer. I mean, we work with a huge amount of uncertainty on farms, of course, you know, weather, weather and world markets being, being the key ones.

But, you know, we know, we know we're going to have that. That's, that's something that we're always going to have. And farmers are inherently incredibly resilient.

Anyway, I'm big rugby fan, so I think a lot of rugby analogies, you know, we've got to play the territory game. We've got to get ourselves to a position where we've got the best chance of scoring.

It might mean that we're repelled at the last moment from profitability.

But actually if we're not even in the right half, if we're not even operating as if, you know, in that red zone where we're looking to score, we've got no hope.

Tom: 00:13:02

If you were to assume that, Tom, you're the coach, how important, especially long term, is holding on to employees or people that are also, I guess, accustomed with the way you farm and possibly invested in the goals of the farm business or the rugby team?

Farmer Tom: 00:13:23

I love it. I mean, I'm going to try not to Stretch this analogy too far, but it's imperative. You know, I know exactly what I want to do.

I know I'm very clear on my own vision and how that fits in and where I want and where I want our family to be.

But of course there's a degree of separation to those who work with us and for us, let's not dodge the importance of making sure that the family are all on together. Many of our farm businesses are family businesses.

So it's not about passing on your vision to employees who you're paying to adhere to whatever your mantra, your tactics, your strategy. Actually, it's making sure the other coaches are on board as well.

Making sure your forwards and your backs coaches, your attack coaches, your defense coaches are all with you as well. So I think that's, it's really, really important.

And you know, when we look across the farming landscape, you know, so many employees, workers are family members. I think, you know, we've got to think about that as well. And one of the things that I'll definitely touch on is relational resilience.

I want to make sure that we get into the nuts and bolts of farm profitability, but there are the kind of the soft skills, the side of things that are really important, very difficult to represent on a balance sheet, but are absolutely imperative to profitable but also sane running of businesses. Is that kind of relational resilience as well? Back to the rugby analogy.

It's putting ourselves in the best chance of scoring and that's all we can expect of the team.

Hannah: 00:14:54

You can't beat a good old rugby analogy. And we'll hear more from farmer Tom as he discusses innovation and AI a little later in the show.

But interesting to hear some of his comments coming next, how consumers are weighing up the pros and cons of value versus convenience in their food choices.

Ella: 00:16:23

My name is Ella Forrest. I'm a beef farmer from Dorset. We are currently rearing 200 dairy cross beef calves through to stores and selling them at a local market.

We probably don't give ourselves a enough credit.

In three years we've gone from starting with 20 wing calves just to see how it would go with the aim to reel them to stores and then buy our next batch of calves. That lasted four weeks before we were approached by dairy farmer to take their Dairy Cross beef calves. And that's where our system started.

Beef trade for us has still been quite decent. We send most of our all of our cattle to local market. Price did drop a couple of months ago, but seems to have held quite well.

We're currently in the process of transitioning to winter routine, we've managed to have quite a long grazing period. Most of the cows went out in May and we brought the last couple of groups in start of November.

There's plenty of winter jobs that still need doing and preparing. Ideally we'd like a bit more extra lighting.

This probably should have been done in the summer, but juggling full time job, including contracting has meant it has gone under the radar a little bit. Our aim for the winter is to control any pneumonia outbreaks.

We've worked really closely with the vets to swab any infected calves which has meant changing vaccination protocols to target the correct strain going forward. We can't expand the farm due to building constraints, so we can't expand cattle numbers.

But we do want to focus on efficiency and making sure the system is as efficient as possible and minimize any waste.

Hannah: 00:17:59

Oh, really good to hear from Ella there.

She's a fellow Harperite like me and yeah, just seeing how hard they work on their enterprise because they've also got contracting as well as part of their business. So as well as full time jobs, they definitely put the hours in. And of course we're always after your farming stories.

So if like Ella, you want to have your say on a future episode of the Ag show, please do get in touch and email us. Agshowdb.org UK is the email you need. Please get in touch.

Charlotte: 00:18:31

I don't know about you, Hannah. This month I've definitely felt like there's been an awful lot of month left at the end of the money.

And I'm sure a lot of people can appreciate life is just getting more expensive, isn't it? And it does mean that you're then having to perhaps rationalize about what you're buying or how you're spending that money.

And I've been looking into this a little bit in some of my day to day work and I just thought it's this really interesting concept that's going on at the moment whereby people are very much having to cut back perhaps on what they're spending.

So we know, and this has been pretty consistent that around a third of consumers are claiming that they are financially worse off than they have been in recent months.

And when you ask them how those people are perhaps thinking about managing this financial pressure, it comes around food and what they're purchasing as being a real way that they can sort of manage this. So whether eating out less or managing their weekly food shop, it's a key way of driving some sort of Confidence that they're managing their budgets.

But we've got this sort of emerging trend coming out that people are looking to perhaps spend less time in the kitchen.

So we've seen that average evening meals are actually, you know, their preparation, their cooking, their cleaning up time is at an all time low of just 31 minutes. And people are perhaps looking for some of that convenience in what they're eating and what they're doing.

Even though this might have an increased price tag associated with it.

Hannah: 00:20:06

Yeah, and consumers have a lot to balance when they're making these decisions with what they're purchasing. And especially at this kind of current time where we're seeing real steep price inflation across categories, particularly beef.

With that in mind, Charlotte, what are we kind of seeing from a red meat perspective and how are consumers changing their purchasing habits to get this balance between value and convenience in what they're buying?

Charlotte: 00:20:33

Yeah, I think, you know, red meat has definitely been impacted by this.

So where we see those proteins which have had some of the largest price increases, actually they might have seen some of the more steeper reductions in volumes being purchased.

We've recently conducted a piece of research which is looking at that meat shopper journey and we're finding, finding that consumers are really responding to rising prices. So they're shopping around for deals.

So actually looking out to see has somewhere got an actual offer where there's money off this item or they're looking at switching their retailer.

So instead of being loyal to one particular supermarket, they are perhaps moving and seeing what's going to be offering them the best price for the products they want to buy. Or we are seeing that, that switching in protein.

So perhaps moving from a more expensive one into a cheaper one is allowing them to make sure they can continue to be eating meat and feeding their families, but making sure it's within their budget. But that is when it is interesting. I mean, you mentioned beef particularly. It's seen incredible inflationary pressures being put on it.

I think the ONS was reporting that in September inflation was up to almost 27%. So huge price increases.

And if we look at the types of cuts that people have perhaps been buying, I mean there was reduction coming across the board for most for a little while. But areas which are seeing growth now are around your sort of added value products. So particularly sous vide and those ready to cook items.

And interestingly, those aren't going to be your cheapest ones, are they? You know, it's not the same as going and getting a pack of mince or diced Beef, it is going to be more expensive.

And some of that is because there's this sort of equation that consumers perhaps have to balance. And it's this value equation, very much put that in air quotes. So value is all around the perception of what it's offering over the actual cost.

And it's that then that balancing act that at what point are people prepared to pay that little bit more because of what it's offering for them?

Hannah: 00:22:45

So does that mean there are kind of different kinds of value to consumers thinking things like nutritional value maybe, or just plain old value for money?

Charlotte: 00:22:54

Yeah, definitely. So some consumers it is going to be coming down to if you've got a set amount of money, you gotta, you sort of work within that frame, haven't you?

And it's making those purchases that will fit within it.

So cost might be that bottom line for them, but for other people it might be that actually if I buy this slightly more expensive product, but it's going to be offering me a time saving because actually I really wanted to try making pulled pork, say.

But I don't want to be in the kitchen or having the oven on for hours at a time when perhaps I could buy an item that's only going to have a 45 minute cook time.

It might be that little bit more expensive in actual out of pocket, but in what it can free up for me, it's just offering me that bit more or for others. I mean, we do know from research as well that perhaps consumers aren't that confident in the kitchen.

They need that little bit of a helping hand for making certain products and particularly with certain proteins.

Hannah: 00:23:52

I think it's really interesting that the concept of value that you talk about there, because for me, I would assume that buying raw ingredients and what we call scratch cooking, which means basically using all those ingredients to put into a meal would be the cheapest way of, you know, feeding yourself. But as you say, it takes time. And what's the stat for the cook time for average cook time of consumers these days? It's like 27 minutes or something.

Might be less than that.

Charlotte: 00:24:23

Well, for lunches you're looking at less than 15 minutes and for an evening meal it's at 31 minutes. And we are seeing that, yeah, scratch cooking is actually at an all time low.

So even though that would be your cheapest way to put a meal on the table, people aren't necessarily reaching for that.

Hannah: 00:24:40

We've talked a lot about red meat, haven't we Charlotte, in this. But I know your study covers dairy as well, so what kind of trends are we seeing for our key dairy category?

Charlotte: 00:24:49

Yeah, so we'll quite often find that, you know, dairy is something that you would add into a meal, isn't it? Thanks. I wouldn't be wanting to have fajitas without a bit of cheese. So it is that additionality that you'd be seeing added into that meal.

And yes, it can offer that increase in cost, but it's offering you that increase in flavour too, and enjoyment. So it isn't something that people are necessarily looking at cutting back on.

And when we look at, I would say, particularly in this point of view, yogurt and cheese is. They'd be really key within this value that they're offering consumers. We're seeing that.

They're seeing really quick growth and within those premium tiers, which is interesting because you would think people struggling, people financially constrained, they'd be looking at cutting back on spend. But actually these are perhaps those little everyday luxuries which they can still enjoy. It only costs them a couple of pounds. It's massive outlay.

They're feeling like they're getting something extra for it. There are real opportunities here, too. I mean, we have to be looking at how we can promote our product as beyond price.

It is about that value that they are offering you. So whether that's enjoyment, convenience, you know, any of those type of things, that is worth the price tag on a number of these products.

It's also about how we can position them as being these convenient solutions to consumers. We want them to feel like they are still able to enjoy something.

It fits within their time constraints and it's easy for them to incorporate into their meals.

But importantly, and this isn't going to be a quick fix, it's all about that education and building in confidence, getting them to understand that real value that red meat and dairy offers to their diets, how enjoyable it is and how they can confidently be incorporating it into their meals.

Hannah: 00:26:40

That was fascinating, Charlotte. I always love talking about consumers trends because it's a different world for me. So thanks for. Thanks for taking us through that.

I think it's now time for a little break. Welcome back to the Ag show podcast, everyone. We're going undercover now. It's time for us to be field agents.

Martin, what have you got for us this week?

Martin: 00:28:17

Yes, Farming Industry Explained, Language Decoded.

Martin: 00:28:21

Over the past couple of weeks, we've had APPGSTA, Stacking Income, TRQ. If you want to know what they mean, go listen, go watch previous episodes of the Ag Show. Today we're looking at demand elasticity.

Agent Charlotte, what have you got?

Charlotte: 00:28:38

Demand elasticity in really simple terms, it actually just measures how sensitive consumer demand is to changes in price. So if demand changes a lot when prices move, we would call that elastic. But if it barely shifts, then that's inelastic.

So example luxury holiday, that would be something that is highly elastic. So you raise the price and actually you're probably going to see bookings drop quite quickly.

On the other hand, an essential like bread, that's going to be relatively inelastic, so people are still going to buy them even if prices rise. They might complain though. Another case, petrol. So that is inelastic because most drivers are still going to need it regardless of cost.

But your cinema tickets, that's going to be elastic. I would probably skip that. If that starts getting too expensive,

Martin: 00:29:28

Or wait for it to come on Sky.

Charlotte: 00:29:29

Exactly.

Hannah: 00:29:30

Your Blu ray.

Charlotte: 00:29:30

Ew, Blu Ray. Do you remember that? Who?

Martin: 00:29:36

Someone's like vhs. Well, that is a great explanation, so thank you. Agent Charlotte.

Agent Hannah will get you at some point over the next few weeks, but if you want help from the field agents, then email akshowdb.org UK, send us your confusing farming acronyms or sayings.

Hannah: 00:29:57

We're going to hear more now from Farmer Tom, who's the keynote speaker at HDB's Big Scottish Crops conference in Dundee next month.

Speaking to the Ag Show's Tom Spencer, Farmer Tom says before contemplating innovation, you need to check your managing workloads and working smartly in the first place, avoid.

Farmer Tom: 00:30:18

Operating in a point of crisis. It helps you identify and eliminate interruptions and distractions.

And it's so unbelievably simple, but it's actually something that we just need to refresh our minds with every now and then. Often we can find ourselves distracted into things which aren't profitable, don't bring even any social capital.

You know, we were saying that that's not on our balance sheet.

You know, there are things that are important that may bring kind of non financial gains, but there are often things that don't bring any gains whatsoever and we just get distracted into them.

When we're looking at innovation, if we haven't got the time to step back and to think and to think big picture and to think long term and to and to be innovative and be creative, then actually we're going to end up going down the same route, route that we always have. There's a company, I think it's 3M and they used to always give their employees half a day a week which is a big commitment.

I mean, 10% of their work, half a day a week for their own creative projects. And, you know, this is a company that's brought us things like the Post it note and lots of kind of really innovative products.

But again, they recognize they need to give their employees that time, they need to generate, to effectively ring fence that time in order to be innovative, in order to think ahead, in order to be strategic. And that's what we'll cover a little bit at the conference. I genuinely think there's never been a more exciting time in agriculture.

The pace of change has never been as fast. It feels flipping awful out there. We've mentioned weather, world markets and governments.

There's dozens of other things affecting farming, but we're bringing in AI. The pace of change in terms of new genetics is phenomenal.

Our understanding of what's going on beneath the soil surface is coming on in leaps and bounds. We're overlaying modern technology with traditional, sometimes ancient practice.

It's a really exciting time and that's why I think it's a really exciting place to be at the James Hutton Institute.

I know there's tours available at the end of the conference and I'll definitely be trying to encourage people to be part of that because they're doing some amazing things in terms of effectively reconnecting some of those ancient grain genetics with the kind of modern strains, ancient grains, modern strains. Our climate is changing. Should we be looking at buckwheat?

Should we be looking at a grain, maize, different varieties of or different kind of species of crop to be growing? How can we provide for the consumer of the future? And how can we make sure we get there at the same time or even slightly ahead of the markets?

It is an exciting time.

Tom: 00:32:51

My own farming mates won't be shocked to hear me cover this topic. Artificial intelligence, AI, how are you using it?

Farmer Tom: 00:32:58

I'm starting to look at, and I tell you, John Kempf in the States is brilliant. He's basically effectively cloned himself, made an artificial intelligence. He's loaded all the things he's ever said and done and written.

And you can now ask kind of virtual John Kemp questions. And obviously he can answer when he's asleep, which is brilliant.

But what I've been looking at doing and starting to do in a very loose way is to create effectively an AI clone of our farm. So feeding all the data, this is where we are. Soils, profits, yields, all that kind of stuff.

Run a load of models, profitability models based on typical yields and typical conditions, et Cetera, knowledge of local markets, that kind of thing. And tell me what you know or make some suggestions about kind of, I suppose, crop rotations, different strategies and profit and loss.

Things I should be investing in. Things I shouldn't be investing in. That's starting to be quite interesting and exciting.

And also the amazing opportunities to use AI to do things that. That would have taken us years to master. I've been using an app to help me to develop a website. I just say, this is what I want.

Write all the code, it gives you the code and you dump it into the website, the domain, the host, and there it is. Well, that's far better than either employing somebody who's definitely going to be a lot more per hour than I am.

Probably more than my bank manager is per hour hour. Or spending a thousand hours learning myself. So huge opportunities. And again, that is.

Or it should be freeing up our time to be more strategic or to kind of focus on the key things that are really important.

Tom: 00:34:38

The sort of delegation almost that you can do with treating an AI as sort of maybe like an intern that has. You're not going to trust the intern to develop your whole strategic plan for you. That's not what intern's for.

But they can potentially help you with little projects or steer the direction of something where obviously you, farmer Tom, are making the end choice, the end decision.

Farmer Tom: 00:35:01

Yeah, I mean, I think it's like having a thousand interns, you know, give me. Go away and do all this research, you know, and give me some suggestions. Or, you know, here's what I'm thinking.

If I chat with my dad or chat with my wife about something, you know, I'll get their viewpoint. But if I can put something through, and that's really important. Back to social capital. Really important.

Don't just go to my dad and say, I've checked this with AI, we're doing it. You know, that. You can imagine how well that might get out.

Farmer Tom: 00:35:27

But actually to say, can you critique me in this in the same way that I write an article and I say, will you critique my writing? Well, this didn't quite make up. This sentence is a bit long. This isn't quite. This doesn't quite flow. Right.

Absolutely the same with a lot of our key decisions. What do you think about this? What's the viewpoint? Well, there's a paper here and it'll go off and do some research.

And then of course, as ever in modern farming, I'm the guy that sits as a farmer, sits in the middle of my kind of concentric circle of advisors. And I've got my agronomist and my soil biologist and my bank manager and my accountant and, and my, you know, whatever. My AI is part of that.

So I still assimilate that information and I still get to say, no, that's not going to work.

Tom: 00:36:08

The end goal, I hope you'd agree, is to run a profitable farm. My big question to wrap things up, are you winning?

Farmer Tom: 00:36:18

The end goal is to run a happy family.

Tom: 00:36:20

Yes, true.

Farmer Tom: 00:36:23

That is the end goal. And if it takes a knock to profitability, we're still winning. Am I running a profitable farm? Well, some years yes, some years no.

And this is why I am attempting, and I'm really enjoying bringing people along on this journey of me attempting to run a profitable farm. I'm very happy to be quite open about that. And one of the talks which I've given recently, actually a few times, is learn from my mistakes.

And I think that's what we get to do. Experience comes just after you need it, if you can learn from other people's experience. So learn from my mistakes.

That's a, that's a great way to be.

Charlotte: 00:36:59

And you can hear more from farmer Tom if you go to AHDB's big Scottish crops Conference at the James Hutton Institute in Dundee on Thursday 11th December. For details of how to book your place, go to ahdb.org.uk/events.

Hannah: 00:37:19

I think that's all we've got time for this week, Charlotte. We've been all over the place. We've talked about resilience and innovation in farming, going from soil health to mental health.

We've talked about the consumer and how we're juggling value versus convenience. And we've crossed the thresholds of reality, from virtual reality to the reality of how much we like gin.

Charlotte: 00:37:42

Make sure if you aren't already that you are subscribed to our podcast. New episodes drop midday every Wednesday. Our next episode is going to have reaction to the budget, so should be landing about the same time.

As you can catch this episode, I'll also be teasing you with some of my Christmas predictions. Can't wait to see you then. Bye