Breeding low-methane sheep - can it be done without compromising performance?

Charlotte: 00:00:00

Martin, have you washed that shirt since last week?

Martin: 00:00:02

Not washing it until England end the tournament. I guess. Actually if England go on and win it, maybe I don't wash it until the. Until four years time in the next. The World Cup.

Phil: 00:00:15

Well, you've got the Euros, obviously, so if they got knocked out of that, maybe you can give it a wash. But this rule of yours, does it. Is it once the trophies lifted or they've been knocked out or is it once they're back on the plane?

Like at what actual point does it go in the washing machine?

Martin: 00:00:31

I think the deeper into the tournament England go, the more likely the England top will be able to walk itself into the. Into the washing machine.

Charlotte: 00:00:43

To be fair, with any luck, Mrs. Martin will put it in the washing machine and you'll never know about it. So we won't be suffering in the office with him smelling rather ripe, perhaps, shall we say.

Martin: 00:00:54

Come on, England.

Charlotte: 00:01:12

Hi, I'm Charlotte Forkes-Rees.

Phil: 00:01:14

And I'm Phil Maiden. Welcome to The AG Show.

Charlotte: 00:01:17

In this episode we'll be talking sustainable sheep farming. As a project looking at low emission livestock systems ends.

Janet: 00:01:25

It's quite important to find the balance between that and just having a more efficient flock, which we've done through developing a selection index that will help identify the sheep that through better efficiency and lower methane will reduce the carbon footprint of the flock.

Phil: 00:01:43

We'll also hear about a farming education centre in Lancashire who are helping school children understand where their food comes from.

Elaine: 00:01:51

Sometimes we'll go out into the field and we'll do soil testing. Sometimes we'll make butter, we'll. But we can make those activities suitable for the age range anyway.

So the activities aren't really something to worry about, it's just the way that.

Janet: 00:02:04

You speak to the children really.

Charlotte: 00:02:06

A reminder. New episodes of the Ag show drop every Wednesday at midday. Available wherever you get your podcasts with.

Phil: 00:02:15

Audio and video versions for every show. Just subscribe to make sure you don't.

Charlotte: 00:02:20

Miss an episode and get in touch. We do love to hear from you.

Comment on any of our social posts or email agshowdb.org UK Low Carbon Lamb has been more than just a buzzword over the past few years. It's been a serious bit of science, genetics and on farm reality.

For three years, the Breed for Change project has been digging into how we can breed sheep that naturally produce less methane without compromising performance.

Phil: 00:02:53

Now the project's wrapped up, we finally get the chance to ask what did we learn and does it stack up in the real world? For our UK farmers.

Joining us are Sam Boone, our senior animal breeding manager for Cygnet, and Janet Roden from Innovis, who was the project lead to break it down from the genetics to the practical takeaways and what this means for the future of sheep breeding. So, Janet, I'll come to you first. Let's start simple. What was breed for change trying to prove and what has it delivered?

Janet: 00:03:26

So what we were trying to prove is that there were simple or relatively simple ways on farm that we could integrate breeding sheep that produce less methane naturally into existing breeding programs and through doing that, reduce the carbon footprint of lambda and meet some of the consumer requirements for low carbon meat.

Phil: 00:03:51

And what were the biggest aha moments from the project? Once the data started coming in, one.

Janet: 00:03:57

Of the elements that we measured was the actual directed methane emissions from individual sheet. And we had a massive surprise to see just the level of variation that we were finding.

So if we compare the bottom 20% and the top 20% in terms of the amount of methane they're emitting over a 50 minute period, there was about a 30% difference, which is actually a huge difference.

Phil: 00:04:23

Yeah, so there's a real big difference there. And is that something that farmers are going to be able to select for in their breeding?

Janet: 00:04:31

Yes. So we have a way of measuring it. We use portable accumulation chambers to measure it. So we can, as I say, measure it.

If you can measure it, you can select for it. But we also know that about 16% of that variation is heritable. Differences will be passed to the next generation.

So that's another kind of quite significant finding from our project.

Phil: 00:04:52

And through trying to reduce methane in your stock, can you do that without sacrificing growth, fertility or carcass quality? Is that possible?

Janet: 00:05:03

Well, it is possible.

And we always knew right from the start that although measuring direct methane was a novel thing for us to measure, that was only part of the story, because actually what's making up the carbon footprint of a sheep flock, A lot of that just comes down to the efficiency of production. The number of lambs born, the number of lambs reared days on farm, lamb survival.

So we always knew they were going to also be a major part of the answer. So it was really important that although we could add this novel methane measurement, that it wasn't in conflict with those.

And so the whole project, we've been working hard to find the right balance between those different elements and to make sure that the sheets that are naturally low emitters of methane, that we understood how that affected the Other traits. The good news is that we haven't really found any antagonisms that would worry us between that natural methane emissions and the other traits.

In fact, where we have found relationships, they've tended to be favorable.

So for example, the sheep that have a genetic tendency to produce less methane also tend to be the better muscle sheep, which are the ones we tend to want to breed from anyhow.

Phil: 00:06:23

So if you are trying to build more of this trait into your flocks, it's sounding like that is quite possible and there are potentially other benefits anyway.

Janet: 00:06:35

We'd actually positively say to people don't just select on their methane emissions because the picture is much bigger and as part of the index, as I said earlier, it's quite important to find the balance between that and just having a more efficient flock, which we've done through developing a selection index that will help identify the sheep, that through better efficiency and lower methane will reduce the carbon footprint of the flock. And about the influence on that is about 25% of that influence is coming from those direct methane emissions.

The rest of it is coming from by identifying ewes that are rearing more lambs, better lamb survival, that the lambs grow quickly. And also something that is probably quite novel.

Ewes that hold their condition or get back into target condition score for topping more easily than others. It's a whole picture. It's quite dangerous just to look at one element on its own.

Charlotte: 00:07:36

So I know Phil started off by saying, oh, let's start with a simple question. I don't feel like anything of this project at all has been simple.

When you were probably in the midst of it, how did you actually find recruiting the people to be in the research and you know, what's been their response to it?

Janet: 00:07:54

That was actually surprisingly simple.

We talk to other people that we knew were interested in using data to help drive their breeding decisions because that was quite important, that we had quite a big background of data in the sheep that we were measuring so that we could understand the relationship between traits.

And so we identified so innovists as one group, but we identified three other groups, the Axelana breeders, the Performance Recorded Clin breeders and the Centurion Dorset group, who all take a similar approach to breeding. And they also are very focused on breeding sheep for a forage based system. So it all fits well together.

When we asked them if they were interested, they kind of bit our hands off. So it was quite easy to recruit those people.

And we ended up between all the groups of having about 40 different farms that we were collecting data from and feeding into the development of the work. So it, it's making it quite robust and it's over a range of different breeds.

Charlotte: 00:08:59

So I take from this that it was really simple to get the data, perhaps, but the data points you probably got from that because you had such a lot of buy in. I mean, how many data points were you looking at for this in terms.

Janet: 00:09:10

Of just the methane measurements? We measured 13,500 animals. A number of them were measured multiple times, so it was about 20,000. It was certainly a lot of hard work went into it.

And then if we look at other data, so parasite resistance, we measured about 8,000 sheep in the project. Eweights and body condition scores, I think we got up to a total of 80,000 points.

So a lot of farmers involved that were very, very keen on collecting data and using that data themselves, which made it a pleasure to work with the team, really. And that data flowed in just on the methane measurement.

Phil: 00:09:47

How do you measure it? How do you record it?

Janet: 00:09:49

I know it's a difficult one, isn't it, to get your head rang.

So the way it works is we've got a trailer that we can tow behind a pickup and on the back of the trailer we've got 12 sealed compartments with a kind of Perspex door on the front. So it looks a little bit like a washing machine. It's not, it's just a chamber. And we put lambs in the chambers for a period of 50 minutes.

Because they're sealed, the gases literally accumulate in the chamber. And we take measurements using a gas monitor at times across that 50 minutes and look at how the gases accumulate.

So we're looking at how methane accumulates, how carbon dioxide accumulates, and at the same time oxygen is being used up. So that goes down.

Phil: 00:10:34

How many lambs have been through that trailer?

Janet: 00:10:36

We've had 13 and a half thousand lambs for the trailer, but so we've had some that had been repeated measurements over their lifetime. So about 20,000 measurements in total.

So we've had a team of technicians at Innovis that have been really busy going around farms all over the country doing those measurements. We can measure about 72 or 84 lambs a day, but you can do some sums and realize that's quite a lot of days on the road making those measurements.

Charlotte: 00:11:04

I know that I'm slightly itching. There must be a joke in there that Martin's going to want to try and make about, you know, pre washed wool jumpers.

If it looks like a washing machine that these lambs are getting put in.

Martin: 00:11:15

I'm just wondering how big these chambers are. You know, are they human sized?

Janet: 00:11:20

We haven't actually put humans in them. But you. Yeah, no, you can quite comfortably get in them. You'd probably. You'd have to sit down because they're kind of sheep height.

Martin: 00:11:28

Settle down with a book for 50 minutes and. Yeah, see, see what data we can get.

Charlotte: 00:11:35

If you're a methane friendly person, Martin,.

Martin: 00:11:38

I think my wife would say I'm definitely not.

Sam: 00:11:41

And the sheep quite like them as well. One of the unknowns in this project is, well, how are they going to adapt to being measured?

But actually they go in nice and quietly and they sit there and obviously it's got a Perspex screen so you can see them the whole time and then, yeah, very often you see that they've sat down or they've relaxed and then out they wander afterwards. So, yeah, it's quite obviously a relaxing process for the sheep. If not for the technicians that are taking the measurements, maybe they could get.

Phil: 00:12:08

Their wool and their hooves done at the same time. You could be doing three jobs in one.

Charlotte: 00:12:13

Now. I think it's time for a quick break, but we will have more from Janet and Sam later on in the show.

Martin: 00:14:22

Thanks for sticking with the Ag show producer Martin here. We're going to get Phil and Charlotte's news pics in just a sec, but I just wanted to quickly float something past you.

Probably should have had it in our pre podcast huddle, but Hannah and I came up with a term for Ag show listeners on last week's show and we've plumped for agers. What's your take on that? It's been already out there. We're not changing it.

Phil: 00:14:51

It's out there now. Is it the Aggers?

Martin: 00:14:53

The Aggers? You're an agger if you listen to the Ag Show.

Charlotte: 00:14:57

Did you test this with audiences for their preference?

Martin: 00:15:00

No, I started off with aggies. Hannah was then reading something in the news. I drifted off. Agggers is a better, better sounding name, so I've gone with that.

Phil: 00:15:09

Have you checked that Jonathan Agnew of Test Match Special is not going to claim copyright on that?

Martin: 00:15:15

I think you might find he's a listener to the Ag Show.

Phil: 00:15:18

Yeah, well, maybe. Maybe it's an excuse to get him on.

Martin: 00:15:21

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Phil: 00:15:22

Aggers could meet the aggers. There you go. Yes, that's an ambition for us.

Charlotte: 00:15:28

Well, what I am plumping for is that any of our listeners could just email us in with a suggestion. Hopefully that is better than aggers and we will use that instead.

Martin: 00:15:37

Agshow atahdb.orguk but we've mentioned Jonathan Agnew, keeping on a sporting theme with his news pick this week. Here's Phil.

Phil: 00:15:45

You know what's going on at the moment. I think Martin's representing in his England top. It's a World cup, but this one isn't related to England.

But I think it should be, because Argentina's footballers have had over half a ton of beef delivered to their team base in Kansas. Now, this is a bit of a thing with the Argentinian team. They always do good barbecues and I mean really, really good barbecues.

But it got me thinking, if they're doing that and they won the last World cup, so we're thinking they're probably going to be one of the favourites this time. Lionel Messi scored a hat trick in the opening game for them.

Maybe it's something that the English or even the Scottish should be taking a leaf out of their book and doing themselves, because, you know, it seems like beef for the Argentine national team is a bit of a winning dish. What do you think?

Charlotte: 00:16:37

I think it's a great idea. What I will say, though, is I've seen an awful lot on social media about the Scottish taking over Boston. And by the Scottish, I mean the fans.

And they look like they have brought the tartan army out in force, so they might not need to take beef with them. I think they've got enough spirit as it is. But, yeah, I don't think that's a bad idea, taking over some British product to the States.

And you never know, they might get a taste for it too.

Martin: 00:17:02

And I think when you'd done the Paris marathon, Phil, you came up with the AHDB diet, hadn't you, for future training, which is basically British beef?

Sam: 00:17:12

I think I ate steak every day.

Martin: 00:17:14

Yeah.

Phil: 00:17:15

So, I mean, I would definitely recommend pork as well. And lamb. I mean, never dismiss lamb. They're all very, very good dishes for any level of sporting excellence you're trying to achieve.

But we've got proof here, haven't we? The Argentine national team, there they are with their more than half a ton of beef and they're thinking that's going to take them to glory.

So I'd be interested to know what the England team are eating, but I definitely think there should be some red meat on the menu there.

Martin: 00:17:42

Well, if it was Jamie Vardy still playing in the England team, it would be cigarettes and Red Bull.

Phil: 00:17:50

That's true. And if it was Gary Lineker, it'd be crisps.

Martin: 00:17:53

True. Charlotte, what is your news pick?

Phil: 00:17:57

Hopefully this one's a bit more sensible as well.

Charlotte: 00:18:00

I mean, it comes to something when I might be known for having the sensible newspaper, because that's not usually the case. But I have been rapping about how British shoppers are increasingly worried about the standards behind imported food.

And this is according to new Red Tractor Trust in Food Index research. So it's a survey of more than 3,000 consumers looking at perceptions of food safety, quality, traceability and supply.

And it found trust in UK food remains exceptionally high. Great news for us. And around 94% of consumers are confident in British products.

But what we do see is that confidence drops sharply when it comes to imports. Now, more than a third of shoppers say they're not convinced imported food meets the same standards as British product.

Over half believe products are produced to lower welfare standards and that these should be banned. And nearly four in 10 want clearer labelling on imports.

That comes as shoppers are growing and placing more importance on food safety, traceability and animal welfare. And these are definitely areas where British farming is seen to lead the way. But despite that strong trust, there is still a clear knowledge gap.

Most consumers admit that they don't fully understand how food is produced, with 93% lacking knowledge in at least one area of food production. And this is really highlighting that growing disconnect between shoppers and farming.

And that is something that we do try to address at ahdb, whether this is through our education teams or going with our ongoing marketing campaigns and sharing real farmer stories across AHDB channels. And these are always exceptionally well received.

But the key takeaways I took from this research, research, shoppers are really backing British and they want confidence that anything imported is also going to be meeting those high standards.

Phil: 00:20:09

Thanks, Charlotte.

Now, carrying on with that theme around education, schools play an important role in helping to tell the whole farm to fork story, not just in classrooms, but on the farm themselves.

That's why it's important that farmers continue to open their gates to school groups, giving kids a first hand look at where food comes from, how animals are cared for and what modern farming looks like.

Charlotte: 00:20:35

It's a topic we've explored previously on the Ag show and someone who's taken it up a notch is Elaine Smith, who herself had to get up to speed after marrying into the farming lifestyle. Elaine's been speaking to us about the Lancashire Farm Education Centre which she's helped develop.

Elaine: 00:20:54

We set it up so that schools can come and visit us. I am A teacher. We have educational visits for children age 4 all the way through to environmental science students.

We also offer holiday club sessions so that children can come and be a farmer for the day. And we also offer visits for other groups such as uniformed organisations, Scouts, Beavers, even the Women's Institute have been to visit us.

So I got into doing the educational visits. It's something that my husband and I have always wanted to to do.

I am not a farmer, I married into farming, so I didn't even own a pair of wellies when I first got together with my husband Paul. I am a teacher by profession, but we started doing educational visits because we actually put milking robots in.

And we decided that using my experience as a teacher and the fact that we have a dairy farm, there's a massive disconnect as to where food comes from, people's association with food production.

So we decided that being as though we've got the milking robots, we could have visits anytime and people could see cows being milked and we would use my experience as a teacher to make that happen. Being a teacher, I obviously knew how to run an educational visit. I was the educational visits coordinator in school as well.

My subject was pe, so I'm quite versatile.

However, I have had absolutely no farming knowledge whatsoever, so I've had to learn a lot about farming and get a lot of experience on the farm, which has developed over many, many, many years. I was also offered a place on the CVAS training.

So I did the CVAS course initially and then I've also done the CVAs plus training to just think about those things on farm and how to make the educational visits work on farm.

Phil: 00:22:48

It's safe to say Elaine's done a great deal of planning for these visits, which is where CVAS comes in.

Elaine: 00:22:55

So I did my CVAS training about four years ago. So we'd done a few test sessions through using the holiday Club children to try different activities to see if they'd work on the farm.

But I just needed to feel a little bit more confident in making sure that everything was safe, the activities were appropriate and the risk assessments and all those health and safety things were in place. So I had my LEAF advisor, Katie, came out to see me. She gave me lots of advice on the farm that day anyway.

But then she also suggested doing the CVAS course. So I put myself onto the first available CVAS course and that training was absolutely invaluable.

As a teacher, you would think I probably wouldn't learn very much about that because I know how to Manage children.

But actually those health and safety points, risk assessments and all those other things that you don't really think about, making sure that the hand washing is appropriate and things like that, and just reassurance as well, to know that you're doing the right things. Because we actually, we were doing most of the right things but we, you know, just having that reassurance.

And the biggest benefit for me was networking with other farmers and other people delivering the educational visits. So much so that we then held a CVAS kind of catch up session at the farm post the course.

And we've also set up our CVAS group as well, that's growing and we just support each other. So people throw in questions to the group and we support each other that way. So a long winded answer.

But the CVAS course really, really just made me fine tune everything and make sure everything was right.

Charlotte: 00:24:31

So what is it that the children do when they arrive on farm?

Elaine: 00:24:34

So when we have any groups of students come to visit us at the farm, our morning sessions are very similar regardless of age range.

The way that we talk to the children in the language you use is a little bit different because obviously children's understanding at 4 and 5 is very different to the 18 year olds. You can get into a lot more technicalities with the older ones.

But fundamentally our morning session is very similar, that it's all about the cows, the milk production, because that's what we do, we produce milk and they're here to learn how is milk produced, where does our food come from? The way that we deliver that is very similar. Like I say, it's just the technical, just the language that we use is a little bit different.

The afternoon session is tailored very much to what the school wants. So sometimes we'll go out into the field and we'll do some soil testing, sometimes we'll make butter.

But we can make those activities suitable for the age range anyway. So the activities aren't really something to worry about. It's just the way that you speak to the children really and just organise the groupings.

The impact on the children is very varied. So some of the children are very shy and quiet, some of the children are quite lively and outgoing.

But just having that relationship with the cows and just being able to get up and close to cows and seeing actually this is what is producing the milk that goes into so many different products. And the number of times we hear. I've never thought of milk like that or thought of how it even gets to the supermarket shelves.

The children get to ask us questions as well. So there's a lot of misinformation, but also a lack of understanding. And it's not people.

People's fault that they don't know what happens, because sometimes as farmers, we're probably not that forthcoming with that information sometimes as well.

I'm married to one, so I can say that I think just having that opportunity to come and see for themselves what actually happens on the farm and to be able to ask those questions, we say to the children, you know, ask us any question. If we don't know the answer, we'll find out, but we certainly won't tell you any lies either.

So the reaction from the teachers and the leaders or any of the adults accompanying the children has always been very positive. And to be fair, they quite often know as little as the children.

So just being able to educate them a little bit as well, because they are teaching the children in school, so just giving them the opportunity to ask questions. And the number of questions that we do get asked from the adults is normally as many as the children as well.

And they quite often don't realise that something as simple as that, in order to make milk a cow has got to be female. We all know that, but some people, it just doesn't twig with people because they've never had to think about it.

Phil: 00:27:25

Before, given they're a working farm. Elaine told us how they fit in.

Elaine: 00:27:30

The school visits, the educational visits fit in really well around our farm being robotic dairy farm. Obviously we don't have set milking time, so that does make it a little bit easier for. For us.

But we run our visits from 10 o' clock in the morning till 2 o' clock in the afternoon. So I go out and I do all my normal farm jobs in the morning and then do my visit 10 till 2. Paul helps me.

He's not a teacher, he hasn't got any teaching qualifications at all. He helps me run the visits, especially when we've got bigger groups, so he can just kind of drop in and give me a hand for an hour or so.

They leave at 2 o' clock and then I can get on with the rest of the rest of the day and do my remaining jobs jobs that day. So in terms of fitting in around the farm, it actually works really, really well.

The schools don't want to be coming too early because they want to get the kids to school, they want to get them registered, they want to get them sorted. So 10 o' clock works really well for the schools as well. They want to be Home in good time for home time. So leaving at two works really well.

So actually a four hour visit isn't too much out of the day. In terms of preparation on the day, there isn't actually that much much. We did build a classroom just because we do so many visits.

Prior to having the classroom, we had a marquee and we have used the old stable block in the past as well. So in terms of preparation, there isn't a whole lot to do actually on the morning.

But I would always, always massively recommend that you do a pre visit with the teachers.

This is something that you'll also cover in your CVAS course, but a pre visit with the teachers just to make sure that the teachers are aware of the farm.

You can talk about any issues that might arise during the day in terms of people's mobility, perhaps things like that, you can talk about those things. There's any allergies, things like that that you need to be aware of, but also just to have those expectations.

So the teachers at the end of the day are in charge of the children's first aid, the children's behaviour. You are there to offer your session as a farm deliverer.

Charlotte: 00:29:31

Elaine wants more farmers to get CVAs trained and start telling their stories.

Elaine: 00:29:37

If you are capable, if you are up for it, if you're sitting on the fence and not quite decided whether to make the jumper to educational visits, I would highly, highly recommend having children on the farm. They look at things in a completely different way that we do.

They'll ask the most amazing questions, they'll come up with the best ideas and they make you laugh a lot, which is always very much needed in terms of doing the educational visits. The CVAS course is the perfect place to start because it just makes you think about how you would deliver those sessions.

But you also get massive amounts of support following that course from Leif and from AHDB as well. So I would definitely recommend the CVAS course.

Phil: 00:30:17

That's Elaine Smith from Lancashire Farm Education Centre.

And keep your ear to the ground as AHDB should have some exciting news about future farm visits very soon, which we'll update you on here on the Ag Show.

Charlotte: 00:32:31

It's the Ag Show. Now, do remember, we love to hear from you, so do get in touch through any of our social channels or our email. And that's agshowdb.orguk.

Now back to Sam and Janet and talking about Breed for Change. Sam, we've let you get off exceptionally easy so far on the show. Come on, talk to us. What was Your role within this project?

Sam: 00:32:57

Well, Sigmet, as part of hdb, delivers many of the national sheep genetic evaluations. So our role was very much about data collation.

We had a lot of data that we could already contribute, of which the new measurements have been layered on the top.

And a number of breeders are already breeding for sheep that are more productive and more efficient and as Janet said, are naturally really interested in this area. The other thing that we've done is we've set up a pipeline for genotypes to come and be used within our evaluations.

So each of the breeders was sampling, taking very tiny tissue samples from their animals so that we can look at the DNA profiles of those individuals and that information also comes through.

And so we had a collation role there of making sure that the right animals had been measured and genotyped and provide parentage verification on top of that.

Charlotte: 00:33:53

And did that throw out any interesting results?

Sam: 00:33:56

Occasionally I have to pick up the phone to someone and say, you know, your fancy sheep, its dad is a slightly different animal and we change that. Normally dog walkers are blamed for leaving gates open and we're able to deal with those things.

But I mean, the important thing about genomics is that as we move towards genomic breeding values, we can make higher accuracy predictions of the breeding values we produce.

So for a trait like methane, but also room and volume through the CT scanner is another example, then being able to use genotypes to increase our accuracy of predictions and to be making predictions on related animals that haven't been measured but are related to animals that have is really important technology. So that's been a really interesting area of our work.

Charlotte: 00:34:43

And is this something that, you know, is relatively new to be thinking about in sheep? Obviously we hear a lot about perhaps with cattle and the different breeding indexes that might be available.

Is this then something that is very new for sheep?

Sam: 00:34:56

Relatively new. Over the last four or five years we've been building these profiles.

I think the nice thing is that from other species we can learn very fast in terms of way they've used data, things that have maybe worked well or less well. And so we've gone straight into what they call single step evaluations in the way that we analyze the data rather than a two step process.

So very much going for the Rolls Royce of genetic analyses through sruc and we haven't had quite so many learning steps, so we might have started slightly behind, but our degree of catch up has been extremely fast. And of course the beauty of sheep is that they have a much shorter generation interval than dairy or beef.

So actually, once we decide to do something, we can measure very big flocks, lots of animals, a real high selection intensity, and we can make very fast progress compared to cattle.

Phil: 00:35:54

So I was going to ask as well, if you are a breeder who is wanting to either get started with using data to improve your flock, or you're maybe wanting to get more out of the data that you're recording, what tips would you have for them?

Charlotte: 00:36:10

If you.

Sam: 00:36:11

If the breeding objective is to reduce your carbon footprint, then I think the first thing to look at is all of the areas of production, because as Janet said, they all will have an influence.

So if your flock maybe has a relatively low lambing percentage, then one of the fastest ways to increase your carbon footprint is to successfully sell more lambs per ewe.

If you've got a very high level of prolificacy, then you might actually think about your umature size and whether you want to change that in the background to create a more efficient flock. So those are some of the simple things at a commercial flock level.

But then it's going to that next phase of thinking about the sires that you can then bring in. And having animals that have been directly measured for methane is a big part of taking that next step to reduce carbon footprint.

Phil: 00:37:04

And out of all this research, could you see there being a marketable product coming out of it, like for example, a premium, climate friendly lam because you've got all of this data that's related to environmental impact.

Janet: 00:37:18

So we've had a lot of interest from retailers and supply chains in just what we're doing. I think they're all looking to incentivize their suppliers to reduce their carbon footprint and produce kind of lower carbon footprint lamb.

They're very conscious of what the retailers want, the consumers want.

And I think we're also very conscious that some of our competitors in the lamb market from New Zealand, Australia, Ireland, are also on this journey of being able to produce a lower carbon lamb.

So there's a lot of interest there in the supply chain and this is all quite new for them, but I think they're quite excited by the fact that, you know, we're essentially being able to produce a rating on animals that will allow them to say these animals are going to help reduce the carbon footprint, but at the same time it's still increasing the productivity and therefore the profitability of the flock, so that there's not that antagonism there. And I think that's one of the difficulties for anyone we all Know that lamb is a fantastic product.

We don't want there to be any barrier to people buying that. But at the same time, people have to be able to make a living out of producing lamb.

So we can't afford trade off between low carbon lamb and profitability. We have to have both. But I think with the index that we've developed in this project, that's what we've tried to do, identify those win wins.

So we now have something that we can use for that.

Charlotte: 00:38:48

Now I think to finish, it would be great to hear from both of you what you think the top takeaway our farmer listeners should be taking from this research.

Janet: 00:38:57

Janet, a lot of the things that you would want to do to improve the profitability of your flock through breeding are also going to help reduce the carbon footprint of the lamb you're producing. And using data to help you do those will help you achieve it more effectively.

Sam: 00:39:15

I think it's about using information to find the right animals for the system and there's a lot of information out there, but you need to have those discussions. You need to head onto websites, you need to pick up ramsel catalogues and then find those genetics that are going to fit your system.

Charlotte: 00:39:33

Amazing. Thank you.

And I think my top takeaway, and Phil, you might agree with me on this, is that we need to get Martin into the washing machine like trailer to get him measured for his methane output.

Phil: 00:39:45

I think we should. We always say that he's full of gas, don't we?

Charlotte: 00:39:50

So, Janet, we'll see you on a farm soon with Martin in tow.

Phil: 00:39:56

Well, Charlotte, I found that a really interesting episode this week. We focused on breed for change and I'm really intrigued by the, the special trailer that can measure methane coming out of lambs.

That, that really does impress me.

Charlotte: 00:40:10

And Martin.

Phil: 00:40:11

And Martin.

Elaine: 00:40:12

Yeah.

Phil: 00:40:12

Well, we've got, we've got to borrow it, haven't we? Maybe put it, maybe put it the front of Martin's house for, what's it, 50 minutes? Yeah, give that a go. Maybe not after a football match though.

Martin, if you've been drinking a few beers, it might, it might skew.

Martin: 00:40:26

That's fair enough. Yeah.

Phil: 00:40:29

And also the education piece as well.

Really interesting because I think it's really important, isn't it, that farmers are getting the opportunity to talk to the next generation about where their food comes from?

Martin: 00:40:41

Yeah.

Charlotte: 00:40:42

And I think we always forget, don't we, because this is a sector that we're in, we might be aware of it, but a lot of people don't actually understand where their food comes from.

Phil: 00:40:50

Please get in touch. We really want to hear from you. I think there's one really pressing matter that Charlotte really needs your help with and.

And that is that she would like some alternative suggestions for Ag show listeners. So we've got aggers at the moment.

Martin's adamant about it, from what I'm gathering, but if you want to help Charlotte out and me, because otherwise I'm going to be refereeing these two, please get in touch with your suggestions and we would welcome them greatly.

Charlotte: 00:41:17

Yes, please do.

Martin: 00:41:18

Agshowhdb.org UK is the email and address. Well, it's been like a football match today, and at the end of a football match, we've swapped shirts. So, Phil, do you want. Do you want my shirt?

Do you want to exchange shirts?

Phil: 00:41:32

Well, once you've been through that sheet trailer.

Charlotte: 00:41:35

Yes, the washing machine.

Elaine: 00:41:36

You mean.

Charlotte: 00:41:48

Sam.